not in the mood to address the above--will later. Feel crappy and pregnant right now, but as for the truck...Millions of other families out there make it without dad having to be gone all the time. You can choose to find survival in other ways.

Give us a way to pay off $50K in debt, keep a roof over our head, food in our bellies and Louis home. We're all ears.

My student loan debt is bigger than that thanks to compounded interest.....there are ways...You just have to be willing to look into it and sacrifice.

Yeah, and you have something to show for it (an education). What are two people with nothing more than a high school education supposed to do?

And exactly, you have compounded interest. How do you expect to pay for it when the debt just keeps getting bigger? You don't "have ways" - your debt is increasing.

What are the ways we need to look into and sacrifice? What we're doing with Louis being gone IS sacrificing.

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You and Louise looked into running drugs? I hear it's profitable...just don't get caught.

I have to chime in here. As everyone knows Ty lost another job. His 2 options thus far are working out of state in Kentucky or on the other coast of Florida, 2.5 hours away, which means he'll only be home maybe every other weekend.

Yes, sometimes the man of the house DOES have to be gone in order for us to survive. I totally understand where Sarah is coming from.

I cannot make any judgement on the decisions you and your family make, but I do know, as a child of a father who worked too much, that the sacrifice of a father being absent so much, is sometimes more damaging than we realize. A man's role is much greater than that of a "provider." After all, God is our provider--it's too big a burden for any person to put on their own shoulders--think God complex. We must work, but then trust in God to provide, because, as we know in today's economy, nothing is stable or guaranteed in the workplace.

I fail in many ways as a father, but what I try to do is give my children those immaterial things which are priceless. With only an occassional presence it's harder to be as big an influence on their spiritual and moral development. You can teach them the truth when you are there, but without fostering an intimate, loving relationship, it can be more difficult to guide them. It takes both parents to do this, not just one, as we can see from the horrible statistics on how many criminals come from fatherless homes. Every effort should be made to be present and available to the children consistently.

Well guess what? I'm working two jobs now (both from home, thankfully) and Ty's not going to be working to provide "material things". He's going to be working so we can eat and not lose our house.

But this is a separate topic, I'll split it if you guys want to continue discussing it, let me know!

Yeah! Split it! :popcorn:

There's really nothing more to say. You're doing what you feel you must do, and if you are in such desperate circumstances, may God help you. Please forgive me. I am not judging you, I was just saying how unfortunate those circumstances are, which I'm sure you already are feeling. I hope everything works out for the best for you all.

FYI--my husband looks at food and shelter as the material things because they literally are material things that we need to sruvive in this world..The immaterial things he mentioned are those that cannot be purchased in a store or from a mortgage company-Love , time, presence. So in the future, when he mentions "material things" he will literally be talking about the basics...



Okay...Train return to your track!!

So is Basil then saying Louis should not work away from home to provide food and shelter so he can be home with the kids?

:popcorn: :agree:

Who would argue that it wouldn't be best if a father can see his kids daily? If there really is no other choice do what you must, but I think it's reasonable to try to find a way to more fully participate in your kid's lives.

Yes, reasonable to try to find a way. We've been trying for almost 6 years... sometimes there just is no other choice.

Ya know Basil, you have a way of rubbin me the wrong way....... naw... more like... flat out pissin me off.

I'm realitively sure thats not your aim er goal, but it's the effect... String you can do it at times as well. I'm in to much traffic to try an read an understand everthin thats been said in this thread since last night (prints to(o) small an to bunched up) But this here... I need you to clarify it.... "fully participate in my kids lives..."

What? You don't think that that is exactly what I want?? You think what? That I selfishly wanna stop havin kids an bein nuthin more then a frackin sperm donor to them so I can continue to be joyous in my truck drivin job?

An String, put your money where your mouth is, er in other words, make a suggestion, don''t jes sit there an say "loftly" 'there are other thins' etc What? Do you think I haven't explored option after option?? I enjoy what I do so therefore make any an ever excuse I can to keep doin it?? I have done everthin I could think of, now I'm onto graspin at straws, goin to Iraq for example. Gone so far as to git involved in, what has thus far been nuthin but a waste an disaster, online program, I've shelled out sumthin like 2500 an have only had a return of 60 thus far.

Of what I KNOW of at this very moment I owe 85,000 in cash debt, owe another 13k er so on the car, house isn't a big deal, an I'm doin everthin I can to survive, includin workin my ass off in this truck puttin in more hours then I can even say here, but then I go home an ever damn day I'm there I am either workin for profit on tractors er puttin this damn thin back togeather agin, my plate is quite full, an jes off the top of my head: exhuast pipe is broke, clamp is shot, rear transmission seal leakin, rear differential input shaft leak, power steerin leak, air compressor oil line broke, vavle cover leak, steerin knuckle u-joints out, front shocks, one leaks the others bushin is out, tool box latches broke x2, battery cable ends shot, battery leak, drivers door handle broke, drivers door latch mechansim shot, an thats what I know of that must be repaired before I can go back out. Then there's my lap top, it's shot needs an overhaul. My bunk puter has a fan failure an now has some wire troubles I havta fix an I designed the damn thin an it's not easy to fix the thins I thought would never have a problem lol An that doesn't include anythin at the house, Sarah's car needs ball joints, a/c in the house needs a cleanin, bathroom sink is shot agin. Still havta nail down the addon to the house guy......

Ya know, I have ALWAYS done this truck deal because I have not had any other choice, I fought my dad off for over a year until I realized my job at the tractor place was over wit an there was nuthin else I could do to make the ends meet.

Le'me be perfectly clear, if I could git out of the truckin industry I would do it this second, but that is simply not goin to happen if I don't have a job that can take up all the slack. btw.. ya know I have like 2 months to come up wit 3500 bucks for this new baby, bout 5 months to come up wit 1500 for registration tags, 5 months for 550 tax, oh an 32-3800 for engine warrenty an I don't have two dimes to rub in my pocket right now......

Desperate times call for difficult choices. There's no reason to get defensive, because I think we're all fairly good people here and know what the ideal situation would be, but that doesn't always work out. No one is faulting you for that. For the record, let's just agree it'd be great for kids to have a full time dad, but sadly it can't always be like that. I wish you and Sarah the best, A2J.

Have you calculated how much you make and then subtracted all truck costs from that? That final number would be whatyou need to make at another job. And if you've applied at all those local places and exausted every single option there is, then you truly have tried everything you can...

Why do you need $3500 for the baby?? I thought the birthing center was freeish???

The birthing center charges $3500 for their care. It's actually up $500 from the $3K we had topay for Liam. I guess they're feeling the strain from the economy too. Still, $3500 is cheaper than what an OB and hospital would charge.

How much would a midwife charge? I think they're even cheaper, and you can do that whole home irth thing which some women are really into...

What if you sold the truck (paying off some of the debt) and he used his driving skills to get a local route with UPS or FedEx? The same UPS delivery person comes to my office everyday, so they must have a route from a local dispatch office.

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some of those LTL drivers make bank....


However....Louise is used to the cushy "no touch" loads...doubt he could handle all that movement...

(oops...did I just say that?)

Sounds like a good idea...

In the condition the truck is in it's actually worth more to us to keep it and run it to try and pay down the debt than to sell it.

I am using the only midwives that are in a 100 mile radius of us. The next nearest midwife is in Corpus Christi and wanted $2K plus expenses.

That is the part that baffles me. How can putting thousands and thousands into the truck actually get you more than getting a paycheck from somewhere else and not having to put any money into it...I don't get it.. :dunno:

It sucks not having a gig local... I commute a total of 6 hours each day, I spend 2 hours less getting to and from my job than I do at my job. And I could do this job out of my house had a spare sound proof room which I do not.

I can see you pain from here though I'm a long way from feeling that much hurt.

I can't get my wife to move closer to my job market so I have the choice take 3 lesser jobs to equal what I make now and spend less time at home but be nearby or work 3 hours from the house, or (and this one is not an option) Say screw it and divorce my wife and move my ass closer to work.....

I don't know what's available in your area so I don't know what to suggest.

But I do know it sucks getting home so tired you can barely keep your eyes open then spending time with the wife and kids just so you can have some time with them before passing out and having to do it all again....


My prayers out to you guys to find a happy medium, and preferably a happy full what you want and need so that you can find a killer gig close to home so you can support your family in a comfortable manner and have time for them.....

I don't get this, either.

Anyhoodle, here's the plan. Sell the truck, file bankruptcy, get a job stocking shelves are Walmart or something like that, go to school in the evenings or on line, get a degree, get good job with benefits doing somethings with computers.

Because if we can hold the truck together we are in a place that we can start paying down the debt. We still owe money to my dad for the truck but it's paid off to the bank. Unfortunately we're being hit with things like soaring fuel prices which is eating into money we could have put to debt. We have to take the chance on paying the debt down while the potential opportunity is there otherwise we have no hope of ever paying it off.

Ahh!! It's so simple why on earth didn't I think of that????

/sarcasm

I'll be out of net service before long so cain't explain it right now... will try tommara when I'm back in service

Honestly, I think you need to give up on the idea of ever making money by trucking. Fuel prices are just going to keep increasing and you'll be throwing more money down the drain. Ditch the truck.

Screw you. I am sick and tired of your high and mighty attitude and belittling of everyone else who might dare to express an opinion contrary to yours. At least the rest of us know how to write in English.

It's been nice knowing some of you. I appreciate your prayers when Phillip was born, but this is not a place that I fit in or am comfortable with any longer. Bye.

mmmmm surprised? Not really, after all I hear it so very often how dumb I sound an the like, obviously I'm to stupid, to dumb, to lazy? perhaps, to speak properly, so yes, congrats you caught me, foiled my evil plan... whatever.. now that ^ was jes bein sarcastic, probly a bit mean, crossin into belittlin? I don't think so, but think what you will I'm certainly not goin to change your mind.

What does surprise me is your reaction, I thought I made mysef clear that I was bein sarcastic, though if you felt I was makin a specific dig at you er even String er anyone else for that matter I apologise. It certainly wasn't my intent, an like I says I don't have time right now an won't have service later to explain everthin in detail though I will first chance I git. Suffice it to say though ya'll are simply not seein the bigger picture an I would more then likely assume it's from a lack of understandin er jes never havin been in buisness for yoursef's etc.

High an mighty? This to surprises me, I'm bein geniuninly honest here when I say I really don't understand that, bein high an mighty when someone has a differin opinion then me? I would honestly like to see that an welcome anyone to share how I do this, it's never been my intent before to act in such a manner and am completely open to bein shown how this is the case. So anyone, feel free to say whatever they feel, I'll try not to blast anyone.

Lastly, please do not leave because of me of all thins, I am but a bit of salt easily remeidied er swept out the door, I would not wishto be the cause of anyone leavin the friends herebecause of me. I believe there are those here that would agree I'd be the first to leave rather then have anyone leave because of me.

Ok Squat, this is liable to be a long one, but if you have a chance er time an the like I would imagine you could apperciate an perhaps even explain some of it a bit better then even I can.

Le's start off wit the line that has brought us here an to the point where Roomama tore me a new bum hole.

Squat skip this paragraph

I started a thread a while back to discuss birth control, up to an includin gittin cut. That is where that specific topic was to be discussed, we talked some an it fiddled out like all threads do, then Sarah started a thread bout the planned parenthood vs private pay etc, an that sprung into some objections bout why it couldn't be debated there the whole gittin cut thin in the first place, which brought us back into the original thread of talkin bout the moraltiy of birth control. Which spawned the whole bein away from home, fatherless kids an to my eventual frustration bout the entire mess.

As I said earlier, which will end up bein yeserday since I don't have service up here... even though my screen jes popped up an said I was back online.. go figure, anyways if I have any service at all I'll post this tonight. As I said I would try an explain the issues surroundin thins, because yeah it's a lofty idea to jes say "git out of the truck" but the meat behind it is not as easy, which is why I mentioned the big picture, so le's talk bout the big picture.

Sqaut you can start readin here :P

As Sarah has said, this truck is currently paid off to the bank, my FIL has a lien on the truck even though it is not offical to the tune of 35,000 dollars. To which, only 6,000 has been paid back in over a years time. I also have another 18,000 or so in debts related to the truck, via the apu an parts, repairs etc. So there is already a 53,000 dollar debt on the truck as it stands now. Now, to some of your amazements, I actually apprasied this truck when it was broke down LAST year at a dealership, of course sellin out right would be better HOWEVER, the sum they were willin to give me on a trade in and out right purchase was jes horrible. They offered 22,500 to buy it out right an as high as 31,000 on a trade. I told the guy straight away if I didn't git at least 40k on it I wouldn't even consider it. An of course I didn't. If I were to sell it out right right now the best I could hope to git for it is bout 20,000. So great, we knock the ONE debt on the truck down to 33,000. Do NOT take my word for it, look up 387 model peterbilts, 03 year model. You'll see they are sellin em for like 60,000 bucks. Sounds great doesn't it? Cept, I can NOT git that, that is retail from these dealers an there's not a snow balls chance in hell I could ever hope to git that, I have.. even though ya'll would probly not believe me, tried to sale this truck, to a company in pheonix az, another in Jermoe ID, they simply will not pay what I MUST have for it, this is NOT a want, it's simple fact. Bare in mind, we are ONLY talkin bout 53,000 dollars worth of debt on the truck alone. This doesn't inculde anythin else we have to contend wit at the moment.

Before Roomama said I was belittlin folks, I had been writtin this post in my head an this next part is certainly NOT to belittle er patronize anyone at all, I had intended to say this from the git go, so do not take offense to it in anyway, I told Sarah I needed to show er on a graph as well to actually look at the bigger picture.

- we are here
= what the debts are an how we are payin them

------------------------------------- this is where we are right now
==== this is where we are payin debts

I'm not sure this anology is clear for folks, but we are ALWAYS playin catch up, it happened the day I got out of this truck an hired drivers, before then we were:

--
====================

Way ahead of our debts, had money sittin in the bank. No sooner had I gotten out of the truck, infact on the very first load that the drivers took, they went down to load an stuck the truck in a mud hole. 100 bucks to pull it out, then the second load, they drug an over weight trailer out to CA an I got hit wit a 750.00 reload fee at the scale. It jes went down hill from there. Now I am workin my ass off jes to try an catch up agin, mean while, we keep spittin kids out, I now have two on teh ground an one on the way in a 4 room house wit two bedrooms. I have over head like you wouldn't believe. We do not qualfy for ANY of the social programs which I spend enormous amounts of tax for. Like some of you can er could apply an receive. We can not, not only do I quote "make to much money" my wife is foreign which isn't really that big a deal, but we live in a royally bad area. An our skin is white. I am not playin the racists card here, but as Clay and Debby can attest to, if you haven't expereinced it, you hadn't got a clue what we're talkin bout. It's that simple.

Some of you have said file bankruptcy an be done wit it.. ok.. you don't know how close I have come to doin jes that. Buuuuttttt... an here comes another peice of the huge puzzle. I drag around a trailer that my folks own and are payin for. Spose for a moment I did sale the truck er file bankruptcy an let someone have the damn thin. That leaves yet ANOTHER burden on my folks an as some of you know they are two shakes of a salt shaker away from goin under as it is. That would be all the excuse they would need. But take it a step further, at this very moment I have a line of credit to the tune of 40,000, that's forty thousand dollars that *I* an I alone are responsible for. My folks have an have spent that money already an I need them to pay it back. So my trucks gone, they go under an BAM, I git hit wit law suit after law suit for all this debt an I'm sorry to say, bankruptcy is NOT a cure all. It's all up to a judge anyways, but now, I don't have a truck so I no longer even have a means of workin for a livin an tryin to pay even a fraction of any of that back. But le's take it one step further. I have 35,000 thirty five thousand dollars on lone from my FIL. He's faimly an no bankruptcy judge would EVER give em a stake in anythin. He would take a huge loss. Is there any among you who would say, tuff titties deal wit it? I am much to honorable to do such a thin, an therefore, come hell er high water I will pay that man his money back. This isn't pride it isn't selfishness, it's a matter of honor, the money is his, shall I be a thief? Not on my watch.

It is ture, I spend thousands of dollars out on this truck, it is true if I didn't have this truck then I would not have expenses of it either, but what then would any of you have me do to pay back the debts? What I think alot of you are missin, even if you throw all the stuff bout my folks, my FIL etc out the window is, I am behind on payments, so I am workin off debts right now that I incurred 4 years ago. That's not goin to change until I git them paid back. This IS a nasty circle I grant you, no doubt there, an if I lose the item which allows me to still gross 120-140k a year there's no way I can make these payments. As I was tellin a good friend earlier today, the highest paid positions I could even git would gross a maxium of 33k a year. I don't care how you slice it I cain't pay the bills on that, even witout the expense of this truck, it jes ain't happenin. So.. why not move right? Move to some city where I can make better money, great... now how the heck do you spose I'm goin to be able to buy a house on shot credit because of bankruptcy, er handle the cost of livin? Clay can attest to this, I have been offered 25 dollars an hour (not by him lol) to work in houston. But the cost of livin, an apartment OUTSIDE of the city is 800 bucks a week.... see nuthins changin, only the numbers gittin bigger, but the ratio is not changin.

We are an have been gittin flat out slammed on fuel prices, an I agree wit Roomama, an I don't even care what the fuel price is actually, because now that it's up, it's not goin to come down unless the democratic side of congress would allow the US to start drillin an buildin our own refineries it jes ain't goin to happen. But you couple that togeather wit the fact that the freight rate *should* be round 2.80 a mile an it's still round a 1 dollar, yeah we're gittin the crap kicked out of us.

So.. cut our losses right? Git out while the gittins good! It's a situtation where we are toooooo deep in to git out. Aside from a miracle, freight rate increase er the like, this is the boat we are in.

I do have tremendous amount of expenses wit this buisness an the only thin I can actually do is keep doin what I am doin, an I keep chippin away at the debts while tryin desperately from goin into anymore. This year has been rough, Sarah an the kids HAD to go to London, this is probly the last time she'll git to go for a very long time jes cause of expense an kids, I bought this APU for 7k an 2k in parts for it etc an it IS helpin to pay for it's sef. We're talkin, well jes on the trip up here wit a light load a fuel mileage of 6.7 miles per gallon. That's up from 5 miles per gallon on heavier loads an wit runnin the main engine to be able to sleep etc. That may not seem like much to you, but that's 1.7 gallons saved at a fuel price of jes say 3.80 that works out to 6.46 a MILE. Save that over a fill up wit 300 gallon tanks we're talkin bout a 1000 bucks a pop. So in realtiy the APU has probly jes bout paid for itsef already, though I admit I have yet to do the actual analayis an crunch the numbers. I am takin as many steps as I can to dig us out of the hole that I pretty much dug for oursef's. Some of you may rememebr how upset I was bout the pregancy of my son, I mean I was out of the truck for two years no kids, no sooner do I git back in an bam... drop him an bam, another one... That's really what this is alllll about. Even if I were not in this truck it is flat out foolish for me to keep havin kids cause I can not support them. An a man who can not, er will not support his faimly is no man at all.

you can stop readin here Sqaut :)

Now I would like to offically an heart felt apology to Roomama, I was so frustrated wit this entire ordeal that when I posted my message it was a bit of sick humor that was obviously lost on er an probly some others, I had *thought* by sayin /sarcasm an then sayin I would catch up wit this later that that would have been enough. It most certainly was not my intention to upset anyone, a simular situation happened before wit Eric, I was sorta tryin to play wit Sqaut an it was jes bad form an bam, Eric said sumthin that pissed me off an I blasted em.. I later had Sarah jes delete the entire post an be done wit it. Now listen, I don't have a problem admittin it, Clay has made me mad, Eric has made me mad, Basil an even String have ticked me off, an I am the type of person that believes honesty is the best thin, so when they've made me mad I have told them as much. Do I dislike any of them? Anyone here? No, of course not.... well.. cept maybe Eric :P an it deeply concerns me that Roomama has gotten so bent. It was not my intention to upset anyone at all. Which is why I talked wit Sarah bout a lil program to git started on FHL. More on that in another thread.

Suffice it to say, this is the boat we are in, I don't believe either of us wants anymore children, this hasn't got anythin to do wit bein selfish, not bein open to God's will, bein disobeident er anythin else. This has to do wit practicality. An this part should probly go into the other thread so I'll jes leave this sit. I am tired an if sumthin doesn't sound right, I am all for clarifyin it, which is sumthin that annoyed me bout Basil, I gave em the benefit of the doubt, I told em he can rub me the wrong way an that I was pretty sure that was not his intent an asked em to clarify some stuff. I have NO problem whatsoever explainin anythin that seems unclear er the like. All one needs to do is ask.

Thank you sooooo Much Louis! Now we have more of the story and the blanks have been filled in and have a much clearer perspective on things. Now we can truly appreciate your situation and have a better understanding of what's going on. I see now that it is harder to get out fromunder than I first understood it to be...
Thank you for filling in the blanks..
:hug:

Stocking shelves at Walamart might buy you dinner but it won't pay the bills.

Getting a degree is kinda pointless anymore because most people can't find jobs in their field of study--My husband is working a job in which many of his peers have only high school educations. His degrees make no difference whatsoever. So getting a degree is not a guarantee of a good paying job.

Lord have mercy on our sister Amy...

Not sure what set her off but something is going on within her to cause such an outburst and I pray that God will guide her through this attack of the enemy. :cross:

If anything we do not need to return the behavior and add to her suffering but to pray for her and hope that she gets through this alright.

So does everyone have to have a "degree" to get a job anymore? I understood just a highschool diploma is good enough. Heck, my husband doesn't even have a diploma and he's had a full-time job for 13+ years now. It's nothing elaborate. Just turkey slammin' and we have full health, dental benefits. We make it week by week....

But still, is a degree really necessary for a job?

Not so much. That's kinda what I said in my post. Unless you can get into a specialized field, degrees don't seem to help much. I'll have to have Basil chime in here on this since he's the one not using his degree...

Hi, my name is Basil, and I am not using my college degrees. :hide:


I started at a higher rate of pay than many of my co-workers, so I think my degree made a difference there, but I work with people with and without college educations, so it doesn't make much difference.

Right out of college I was offered a newspaper reporting job with on a managing editor track, but the pay was ridiculously low, even for the editors, and this was with a fairly large newspaper syndicate. I knew I couldn't pay back my student loans doing that, so I chose to do call center work for at least a few more bucks per hour.