Ok, first off, please no debate on whether or not it's biblical to use permanant birth control (i.e. vasectomy, tubal, etc.). Please keep solely to the situation at hand.

Louis and I are debating where he should get a vasectomy done. We basically have 2 options as we have no health insurance:

1. We private pay. I have called several places in our area and the average price is $1400. Obviously money we don't have.

2. Use Planned Parenthood. They would charge a maximum of $700 and we could quite possibly get it done free when we show them our tax return where it shows what a piddly amount we make.

The thing is, we a morally opposed to Planned Parenthood because of their role in abortion. We have gone back and forth over where to go. What would you do? Would the thought that since it would cost Planned Parenthood to do the vasectomy thus taking away dollars from abortion make any difference to you? We just don't know whether we should use Planned Parenthood but the alternative of private pay is something we can't afford either :sigh:

That's a tough one. the organization was founded to provide birth control to those could otherwise receive it. It has always been the in the business of helping families keep from having more than children than they want. You have to remember that prior to the founding of Planned Parenthood and other organizations like it, couples were routinely having 6 or more children.

Over the years, they added abortion to their services, as a way for some to "plan parenthood."

So the question is: do you use them for the purpose they have always been designed to provide or do you oppose them for supporting the option of abortion?

It wouldn't cost planned parenthood and take away money from their other prjects. They're just doing it for less than the doctor's fees, which we know are inflated to pay for the Porshe. Planned Parenthood would still be getting $700 from you to use in whatever way they want to.

Because the morality of this is so tightly linked to the action itself and truly cannot be seperated, this is all the comment I can provide.

Don't give Planned Parenthood your cash.

Thanks for that rhetorical spin! :wave: Now, lets get back to plain, clear, and honest speak.

Their purposes have changed over the years....While birth control is still one of their goals, their abortive purposes have become a greater part of their whole reason for existence.

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what about getting some insurance for a month or two, gettin' the snip then gettin' off the insurance?

I would be opposed to using PP also....

Insurance for him in his situation,I think, would be too outlandishly expensive, wouldn't it? Cheaper in some cases to pay cash outright.



Just a thought, since you do not want to face or address the morality of sterilization, perhaps move this thread out of the Theology forum???

Move to Canada....snip snips are free here....:whistle:

Ok String... I'm confused:

http://fhlforums.com/index.php?showtopic=5241

That is why we were talkin bout it there.............

The one thin some of you have missed is the fact that I may not havta pay anythin at all to PP, thats where the difference comes in as far as moey goes. An your right, in my situation it'd cost me more to try an git some insurnace rather then jes shell out the money out right.

I'm all for the debate if you'd like, simply do it in that other thread where we've already discussed thins an I had made up my mind bout thins which is why Sarah started this thread, back pedalin now though.. I donno, we can talk there but I haven't seen anythin that would change my mind bout this specific form of b/c.

I would work something out with my Dr. I woudl explain the situation and I know he'd help us out :)
I would not use PP.

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Louise....I thought you were tough


....just go out to the woodshed with some tin-snips and bailing wire...

Ok, so to recap...

Y'all would choose paying $1400 out of pocket vs. going to Planned Parenthood and having it done free?

Pretty much. Although...I would talk to my Dr. and see if he can help us out. I know when DH was laid off and we had no insurance, my Doctor charged us a lot less for services and gave us free samples of meds so we didn't need a prescription etc. :dunno:

And just for the record...he doesn't drive a porsche ;)

I would not go to PP, even if it was free. I would call the doc, let them know you don't have any insurance (most places give you a discount) and see if they can work out some kind of payment plan.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do! :hug:

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NO....if it was me, no way would I pay 1400 bones....but I also definitely wouldn't go to PP.


wifey and I would continue to practice some form of birth control until I could find a job that provided adequate insurance....


Sarah...I think you're doing a home birth right? or some birth clinic thing...so I take it a femalectomy is not feasible after the birth?



I thought of a another thing....what if you just KICKED him in the gonads as hard as you could....would hurt a bit, but it might do the job and it would be FREE.

We've tried the birth control thing...hence Liam and baby number 3. So obviously we don't do birth control well.

And the getting insurance thing is just a pipe dream. We haven't had any in 6 years and that's highly unlikely to change.

I go to a birthing center but they're strictly pregnancy only. They don't do family planning stuff. I've offered to get my tubes tied so Louis can avoid the snip but he won't have it. But also, it'll be more costly for me to get done so goes back to the money issue.

And while the suggestion of kicking Louis in the boys can be somewhat appealing sometimes, and I really like the free angle, I don't think he'd be all for it. Besides knowing our luck it wouldn't work anyways. There's been past trauma in that area and he's still obviously not shooting blanks...

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I'll bet it's quite a bit more to do the female thing...sounds like that's out.



hmmmmmm......maybe the Lord's trying to tell ya that "Eight is Enough".



Have you explored the option of OVERWORKING him? that is, giving him so much driving...even crappy grocery loads, that he's NEVER home? That might work PLUS you get the added benefit of extra income to buy bed-spreads and such.


Maybe you can twist a rubber band around those babies for a few days....

I'm confused...I thought you said that PP would cost $700...How does it end up being free?

One thing that kinda bothers me about that is that on occasion Planned Perenthood has also offered "free medical and surgical abortion services".

They are a wicked organization and to have any dealings with such a group seems kinda sketchy....

YEEOUCH!! Dude, you've got some nasty ideas in that thick skull of yours! :blink: :faint:

THIS... is what I havta put up wit....

"I won't have it"????

Do you know how many YEARS I have had to listen to an put up wit this frackin crap of "it's oh so horrible for a woman to do it, it costs more, men are jes wimps an such to make women do it" on an on an on by Sarah, er mother, my own frackin mother, er sister... an THEN they act like THIS!! As if she offered but NOW *I* won't have it.. are you frickin kiddin me???

Well le's see... Saturday noonish..... Tuesday morninish.... yeah... I guess it's past due for a fight........................

I don't have a regular doctor to talk wit, cause.. I don't have insurance so I don't go, so thats out, sorry.

The planned parenthood place would charge a maxium of 700 to do it, but they do the slidin scale thin an since I'm broke there's a good chance it'd be free for me to have them do it.

But, like ya'll I have moral objections to usin them when I agree wit String, they are a wicked organization responsible for countless murders, but that was what Sarah was talkin bout, if I had it done for free we'd be takin thier time an resorces away from them an maybe in some small... albeit super tiny way, helpin to save er put off at least one murder. I agree, pretty weak grounds.

I find it insanely dumb, irresponsible an jes stupid to keep poppin out kids when I cain't afford them, have no room for them in a two bedroom house, cain't git a bigger one etc, an the biggest, I'm never round so I am simply a frackin sperm donar an my children deserve more!

Stayin gone an workin doesn't work... thats where number three came from...

We are jes.... as usual.... soooo screwed....

Only option left now is no more sex.... yeah I'm sure that will work......

NFP or FAM works when done right!! :thumbsup:

I donno what FAM is off hand, probly do but it doesn't ring a bell.

NFP is what was goin on wit number three, I'm not sure it was a matter of not doin it right, I honestly don't know, would probly havta git into tmi but, number three showed up after I had been gone for a long time, over a month witout any ejaculations, which translates for men into leakage, an I'm positive number 3 was a leak.

FAM is Fertility Awareness Method. You use condoms or other barriers (or abstainance) while you are fertile. NFP means NO sex during the fertile period at all--that way there are no leaks to worry about! :)

Best part about them is that they are FREE!

We were using FAM.

This is a tough one for you guys. Medical costs etc are different over here so it wouldn't be an issue. I don't know anything about this organisation you are talking about but if they perform abortions for women then I wouldn't want anything to do with them.

I don't think the argument about taking resources from them and maybe saving a life stands up much since the reality is that a vasectomy is not going to be exhanged for an abortion.

If you decide to go there, it would have to be on the grounds that you believe it to be ok to use their services and that is a personal decision. I only said what I'd do 'cos you asked.

I'll pray for you as you figure out what you're going to do.

:pray:

btw I'd steer clear of Squat's ideas if I were you :screwy:

I've heard that almost all couples in China practice anal sex due to that country's one-child policy. Whether you are willing to go that route is really up to you, but it certainly would prevent conception.

Did a condom break or something? I don't think I have ever known of it failing when done right before...This is scary..Seriously, for my own future reference so I can watch out for it, what exactly failed?

Yeah, that's not something I'm up for on a regular basis. There's a reason that many homosexual men have issues later in life in that area...

No, the condom didn't break but it didn't contain everything so it leaked. Louis hadn't been home for a while so things had, erm, built up. And it wasn't even at the real fertile time either. It was a couple days before the "no-no" time but we didn't want to take the chance so used a condom. Obviously that didn't work :doh:

I did a little more calling around and couldn't find anyone to do a vasectomy yet on a sliding fee scale but I did find one place that will do a tubal for just $3 because of our income level. In my mind me getting done is preferable to paying a bunch of money that we don't have to pay private for a vasectomy.

WOW......That's just....Wow...Can't imagine how any of it got out all the way up to the top but..whatever.. :yikes:

At least it wasn't really FAM failing! That is a relief to me...

No, I wouldn't say the FAM failed per se but it goes to show that no form of BC is 100%. That's why we need to do something permanant.

Please research Post Tubal Ligation Syndrome first!! sounds like a bad deal. Too many side effects that many doctors refuse to acknowldge and only attribute to age and hormones.

Here's a page to get started:

PTLS

If surgical alteration is a must for the two of you, its tons safer on the man..

Can we please not bring fecal matter into this???

But if $ is an issue and it's either he gets done for 1400 or she gets it done for $3.00 I'd go with the $3.00 :) But that's me :D

There are a ton of possible probs for the man too (ever read dontfixit.org?). So either Louis or I stand to face possible complications. But it's like that with anything when you mess with your body. But we don't feel like there are any other alternatives out there for us when it comes to family planning.

$3 and suffering isn't really a bargain IMO...

Gotta go to that other thread on this one....

But just like not every man who has a vascetomy has problems neither does every woman who has a tubal. One thing is for sure is that to continue having children IS creating suffering for Louis and I and consequently our kids.

So there's a guarantee of suffering with no tubal but possible no suffering with one. I'll take the tubal.

God never promised a smooth ride. These bumps and potholes shape us and form us into better people. We learn from our sufferings. Look at those who have never sufferen much at all. They are shallow pitiable people.

The hard thing for us to do is to look at our sufferings and be thankful to God because He is using them to help us to grow, to make us better. I have a real problem even thinking about being thankful for everything. SUre we can be thankful for the good things, that's easy. Its the bad stuff that we can't possibly imagine can have a good outcome, and therefore we aren't thankful. Belive me, I am the biggest hypocrite when it comes to this because I gripe and complain rather than accepting gracefully the things that come my way. I pray God to forgive me.

It's better than 1400 and suffering. Like Sarah mentioned...both bring risks. Gotta do a major pro/con list for both... :dunno: