I haven't been able to git much information on this.. but 3 er so this mornin I was listenin to the talk radio an they kept advertisin for talkin bout this pendin deal.

Apperently, some dumbass judge in... you guessed it... CA, has decided that parents can not, nor are they capable, to home school thier own children. They said sumthin to the effect that 90% of home schoolin would stop in ca if this whatever goes into effect. Anyone have any information bout this? Seige? Golfinmaw?

I'm not going to say much. Here's an article that outlines the ruling and thoughts.

Just to add that this law has been in place since 1950's so it's not something new.

It's also not saying it's illegal but that a credential is required.

And really there's nothing to 'go in effect' since it's been the law.

The HSDL is already appealing it, Gov S. is also against the ruling so not sure how this will turn out.

Go here

We're members of the Homeschool Legal Defense Association (HSLDA). They have a petition to "depublish" the decision - which would apparently render it null and void.

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/ca/200803030.asp

Read the article. Sign the petition - you do not have to be a member to sign it.

I haven't read any of the links, but I'd be in favor of a certification program for home schoolers. Not all parents are truly qualified to teach their children everything they need to know to pass the GED.

An example: do you really think Britney Spears (in her current condition) should be able to home school her kids?

But that's where I think the government is too big for their britches. I believe I know what's right for my kids. The subjects we are not qualified to teach, we find co-ops to fill the gap. It's not like I tell my kids, "I don't know how to teach you basic chemistry, so you're not going to learn it."

The extreme case of Britney Spears aside (and who am I to say that she's not...), most parents will do what is right for their kids. If that means sending them to public school, great. If that means private school, great. If that means homeschooling, and they know their limitations, great. The government should leave their hands out of it.

Big government is going to be the death of America - whether it's GOP or the other guys. Look at the oil situation. We've known for at least 35 years that this was coming, and we did nothing about it. Competent engineers have developed quality electric vehicles and non-fossil-fuel methods of electric generation. But the big oil companies and the big car companies have petitioned the government to only allow oil-based vehicles on the road. Now we're stuck.

We're going down the same road with our kids. Look at Europe and their parent/child laws. If a European parent raises a child with a healthy Christian upbringing, and teaches that child that some aspects of society are sinful - homosexuality, drunkenness, etc. - that parent faces jail time. (www.parentalrights.org)

If you want to ensure that everybody is qualified for everything before anybody does anything, then you may as well move to Venezuela or Cuba. Take away some of our freedoms to mess up and you destroy our free enterprise system - not that there's much of it left.

Off :soapbox:

I can't currently get to the link right now but I have a link to an independent study that shows that homeschooled kids whose parents ONLY have a high school education still out perform public schooled kids. I'll try to find the link later tonight otherwise I'll have to wait until I get back to Texas.

Ok, here's the link to the homeschooling study I mentioned in my earlier post. There is no significant difference in achievement between homeschooled kids whose parents were certified teachers and those whose were not. Here are some interesting things regarding achievement that were observed in the study:

• Almost 25% of home school students are enrolled one or more grades above their age-level peers in public and private schools.
• Home school student achievement test scores are exceptionally high. The median scores for every subtest at every grade (typically in the 70th to 80th percentile) are well above those of public and Catholic/Private school students.
• On average, home school students in grades 1 to 4 perform one grade level above their age-level public/private school peers on achievement tests.
• The achievement test score gap between home school students and public/private school students starts to widen in grade 5.
• Students who have been home schooled their entire academic life have higher scholastic achievement test scores than students who have also attended other educational programs.
• There are no meaningful differences in achievement by gender, whether the student is enrolled in a full-service curriculum, or whether a parent holds a state issued teaching certificate.
• There are significant achievement differences among home school students when classified by amount of money spent on education, family income, parent education, and television viewing.

I'm rather floored by this mentaility... well maybe not floored, not even surprised really. This is jes more of the attitude that "the government knows how best to rasie my children, how I should live" They are constantly tryin to take rights away from me, an to use a Brinteny Spears argument seems... jes dumb to me. I mean in reality we know of far worse off mothers then Brinteny Spears... at least she has money an the kids would have ability to have some of that.....

I still haven't heard really what it is that's goin on, but yeah I did hear the the governor was against .. whatever it was that was sposed to be happenin. Maybe it's sumthin bout enforcin it er sumthin.

But like others have said.. I think it's crazy that "teachers" think they are better able to teach our children then parents are... HELLO!?!? My goodness I personnaly think teachers in general are far worse choices to teach, they are pawns of the goverment, by that I mean, they are forced to teach this that way, that this way, an if they don't conform to the politcial correctness crap then they are fired, removed, sent off to scrap gum.

I taught PE for two years, I couldn't believe the crap that I was hearin all the time, I originally was goin to school to teach agricultrual science.. I jumped ship qucik after some of the crap I was havin to put up wit.

An I think it's still jes as dumb to go on bout this "parents need a qaulifitcation" well that jes means they want to conform the parents to the polictical crap as well by sendin em to colledge an force the crap down thier throats. I mean look at what we do, I obviously cain't teach proper english, an I agrue wit Sarah bout it all the time, but when it comes to math I tend to be better then Sarah is. Does this mean that I am not qaulified as a parent to teach my kids anythin? Like Clay said, all we do is find, serach out someone who is qaulified, an that does NOT mean frickin public schools.

It's insane to me anyways, public schools spend so much time a day in school an want to increase that as it is, an the actual learnin goin on coupld be done in a couple of hours a day. There's so much insane waste when it comes to actual learnin time. Home schoolers can knock out lessons in a few hours an that leaves a heck of alot more time for other thins.

Personnaly I think this is jes the liberal democratic move agin, push more an more government, tell me how an when I can do what I want to do, that brins up this MN smokin ban thin... havta start a new thread on that one.

I never said anything about the government controling what was taught. I just think that there should be a seminar or something that homeschool parents need to complete on how to teach.

because parents don't know... how to teach....? I mean it's some great big mystery? should we then have classes on how to teach them to piss in a toliet? er how to feed themselves? er how to git dressed? how bout make thier beds? I mean the list can jes go on an on, I dislike when folks try to make themsef's bigger then they are. While I'll not bash teachers as a whole but in my opinion, they aren't brain surgeons er rocket scientists, anybody can be a teacher, er buisness adminstraor, er anythin else that requires colldege. It is not in my opinion a cornered market, an I have seen really great teachers an really bad teachers, for example my own mother in law is a teacher an I completely disagree wit er style of teachin, does that mean she is better qualified then I am because we have different styles of teachin?

She prefers to teach... like a great deal many of other teachers, memorization, so instead of teachin phonics, they'd rather kids memorize three letter words instead of learnin how to sound out a word er understand what goes into learnin how to say a word. The simple fact is, if you know the how's of a word then there'd be no word you couldn't read/say.

No parents don't need a class on how to teach thier own kids.

I disagree. Teachers in public school don't/can't teach 30 different children 30 different learning styles so they don't. I, having been with my daughter since the day she was born, have watched her learn and develop and know how she learns and can teach to her learning style. That's partly why homeschooled children are ahead of their public schooled peers - because homeschooled kids generally have their education tailored to their learning style. That kind of individualization is just not feasible in a classroom setting.

You might want to do a little research on homeschooling as you seem to have some misconceptions...sadly so does a lot of the general public.

I think it also depends on the teacher and the school system.

Andie's teacher has the kids grouped by ability. They do have sight words, but they've also learned all of the Spaulding phonics. She teaches them how to sound out words, "chunking" (breaking longer words down), etc.

I volunteer there and I don't see much wasted time. It's very efficient with the groups moving from one "station" to another (computer, reading, writing, motor skills), her day flows with breaks coming at lunch & recess (which is early in the day), then another short 15 minute or so recess around 1:30.

So, yeah......I think it's all how your child's teacher and school system is. Also, parental involvement is key. Whether your child is in the public/private school system or homeschooled, you've got to be involved in their education.

:thanks:

Totally agree. Even if you're an involved parent and riding the teacher's (and the principal's and the EA's and the vice principals) asses 5 days a week and STILL see no improvement in your child/ren's education, there are seriously wrong issues with the school and the teachers. BTDT.

Now, with my kids being homeschooled, they've picked up like little rockets and have learned in 6 1/2 MONTHS than the few YEARS they were in public school. So yeah, it's TOTALLY the school and teachers. Most teachers don't nearly qualify enough to be teaching.

Deb, sounds like Andie is one of the lucky ones with a great school! :thumbsup:

Right, that just goes to show it's not just qualifications that makes somebody a good teacher~

A piece of paper an .50 cents an you *might* git a cup of coffee at the whataburger....

The paper doesn't make the teacher, nor does a piece of paper make a doctor er a IT tech, you can posses all the technical knowledge of each but if you haven't the "feel" if you will for the occupation then the piece of paper means nuthin.

What do you base this on? What statistics or facts fo you have to support your theory that homeschooling parents are failing as teachers? Do you have substantial evidence? Or is this your assumption?


Seems to me that since homeschoolers consistantly score well above their government educated peers, the argument that homeschooling parents need to be taught how to teach is a very weak straw man.

I've taken education classes in college. I almost went on to be a teacher. Did my first pre internship and backed out of that. In those classes, you get a few tips here and there, but for the most part you don't learn much more about how to teach your child than you do from just being a parent and learing how to teach your child through parenting.

I'd still like an answer. On what do you base your belief that homeschooling parents need to be taught how to teach?

Same here...


ANd our classes are 20 max :D

There's 17 children in OS class, one teacher, 2 aides and at least one parent to help. :booyah:

Won't be the same three years from now. Kindergarten is very different from the other grades. Those little 'uns make up a whole world of their own! When the kids are older, have more firmly developed learning abilities and disabilities, attitude and disciplinary problems, habits, etc... the teachers have a much harder time teaching the entire class. Those with home and emotional problems often prove to be distractions to the class, smarter kids get bored waiting on the slower kids to "get it". There a are a million different things that go on beyond kindergarten that cannot be compared to the kindergarten experience..

I think it depends on the school and how they teach. THere are classes that teach as a whole and there are classes/schools that teach according to the child's level.

:agree:

I was gonna add a "so far" to my earlier post... :cheeky:

It's very true that EVERYTHING changes as soon as they're out of kindergarten. I've had a few friends of mine whose kid's teacher would get so mad, he/she'd just blow up and start swearing at his class full of kids. :blink: That, or deliberately start fights amongst the students in the class.....heck, there are a whole bunch of crap going on that the TEACHERS start with students. No wonder they've got SWAT teams coming in every time someone says "boo". :nono: Before long, scanning each kid in the entry ways will probably become mandatory.

I never said anything about the students doing better or worse in homeschooling situations.

I just believe that anyone who teaches should have some sort of qualification (i.e., a certification to teach). I hold up my Britney Spears example. Does anyone think that she (or someone with her condition) should just be allowed to say "Okay, I'm going to homeschool my kids." What would she teach them? How to party?

Look at it another way: Let's say you have a tooth ache. Would you be more than willing to let the accountant that lives down the street start drilling on your tooth. "Ma'am, I don't have any background in this, but I think I know how to do this just as well, if not better, than someone who has degree in dentistry. Now just sit back and open wide while I plug in this Craftsman drill I got at Sears."

This really makes no sense to me... your sayin that state run schools an state educated teachers are better qualfied to teach children? Why? Where does it say they are better then parents who birthed their children? An have been teachin them since thier first breath?

Tell me why your bashin brittney so hard? Your sayin that another human bein, that puts thier shoes on same as anyone else can offer nuthin but partyin? I mean, unless I'm wrong bout this, you don't know er anymore er less then I do, an then that is jes all media news etc.. an we all know how balanced an fair they are.......

No piece of paper handed out in a poltically correct world, taught from opinion an "opinion based fact" could ever hold a candle to life experenice, it's jes that simple an no amount of degreed papers are goin to make a teacher better then a parent. Jes like you have bad parents, you have bad teachers, the piece of paper means nuthin.

You say you believe parents should have sumthin, why is that? I mean you've mentioned the 'how-to" thin, but is this the only basis you have? A belief/opinion?

oh oh oh dem's fightin' words man! :P

Are you saying tht homeschooling parents know about as much about teching their own kids as an accountant does dentistry???

If that is the case then all those millions of homeschoolers that appear to be excelling above their ublicly taught peers aren't really being taught properly, are they?

Still you haven't answered the question:

On what do you base your belief that homeschooling parents need to be taught how to teach?

Do you have statistics to support your belief? Do you have evidence that prooves that homeschooled children aren't being taught well?

You stick to your story, but you aren't supporting it. With nothing to support a belief, what reason do you have to believe it? Faith? :doh:

I never said that at all. Go back and read my comments. I never said that state run schools were better.

All I am saying is that I think someone should be qualified to teach before they begin teaching.

You need to be a student before you are a teacher. Even Jesus spent time with the scholars in Jerusalem before he began teaching others.

Clay was saying if he doesn't know something that needs to be taught, he finds someone who does. He goes to someone that he feels is qualified to teach it.

And I also never said that it had to be government run certification program, just something that is government recognized. Private schools are accredited and receive government approval that the student swho greaduate from there have an equal diploma to those from the public schools (cover the same subjects, etc.). A Christian organization could create a program for homeschool teacher certification that could approved by the state.

Are we in the same thread? I didn't say you said issued by a state run school, listen to what I am sayin incase I'm not bein clear. Your talkin bout havin ... "some form" of certification, an your talkin bout bein certified BY state run schools OR state run colledges, because face it, the government controls the universities as well.

An re-read what you jes wrote:

A Christian organization could create a program for homeschool teacher certification that could approved by the state.

Your sayin the same thin.

So, tell me why it is you do believe this.

Just like I said above. It could be like the private schools. Their ciriculums are not created by the states, they are just approved as equal to (accredited). The certification program could be the same (accredited but not created by the state).

He still can't tell us why he believes that parents are not qualified to teach their own children even though the stats prove otherwise.. B)

I never said that parents were not qualified!

I simply stated that I believe someone should have some training in teaching before they begin.

I guess I misunderstood this then:

and this:

Still, I will ask again:


On what do you base your belief that homeschooling parents need to be taught how to teach?

.
.
My wife taught 9 years of public school before she stayed home to have babies and homeschool....


(I'm still not convinced she's qualified...hehe)

Here's a little something from your wife....:lena:

I too, would like to know what QUALIFIES someone to be able to teach?

Interesting. I was thinking of going back to school to get my credentials...

Why, just to get a piece of paper that says you can "teach"?

If a parent believes they can teach 20 some odd students, what makes them think that they can't (or is it a matter of won't) teach they're own kids at home? I don't get it....

:doh:
B/c a credential is necessary for teaching at a school... :tease:

I'm itching to go back to get my teaching credential once ys is in school...

Why not just homeschool? Less students that way. :P

And more field trips and flexibility!

HA! Only if you have a vehicle!! I should have my car up and running as soon as we get our income tax. Hopefully by next month for SURE.

There's tons of benefits to homeschooling as I'm discovering. I'm getting to know each of my kid's strong and weak points (academically) EVEN MORE now than when they were in PS. They're much higher than the way they were being "taught" in PS.

I understand the vehicle issue...we only have the one and its hard when i need it because I have to get the kids up way early to take husband to work...