I have been meanin to for months, literally months to talk bout this an a side piece of it also.

We have a couple of thins here, the bible told Adam an Eve to be fruitful an multiply, same thin wit Noah etc, an others as well, I don't think anyones goin to argue that God didn't really say this er that etc, so le's agree God said to do so.

I think we can also agree God said this in the OT, I don't recall Jesus sayin er any one else in the NT, other then children are a blessin from the Lord etc.

I'm not goin to make a distincition between the OT an the NT so le's not git side tracked on that.

Since are children are infact blessins from God, do we have any rightful say so in wether we choose to accept that blessin? No I am not talkin bout abortin, but birth control.

The church is divided bout bc and quite honestly, no one really teaches bout it one way er the other, I know orthodox an catholics at least, believe it's sinful an breakin a commandmat of God.

Well, are we breakin a commandment? Is it a commandment given from God to each of us to be fruitful? That is the question I have.

God gave us free will, now does that free will extend to choosin wether er not we are blessed wit children? Can we choose to not have children an not be wrong?

I have been wrestlin wit the idea of gittin casterated... what makes it worse is the fact that the cheapest place is that frackin planned parenthood place... so t... well I guess that's a topic for another thread.

But if I choose an Sarah chooses to no longer have anymore children, how could that be sin? Would it be sin based solely on the words, 'be fruitful an multiply'?

Did God intend for me to pop out a bunch of kids that I never git to see? Have no real part in thier lives? Jes fly by one day, kissy kissy hug hug an that's that? As a father I am called to be more then that, is it fair to the children to stick em in such a situation?

I don't feel that bc is wrong, I do wit these pills that have a chance of abortions, but anythin that doesn't carry that risk I don't think is sin. Could it be argued that if we really trusted God He'd decide wether er not we have children. That's alot of faith I agree, an while not at all wrong, isn't this sorta like throwin the fleece on the ground? Testin God? Sumthin we aren't sposed to do, an then what, we end up prego an then jes say, well God decided we'd have a kid er another etc even though we really didn't want one, you see where I'm goin wit that?

If we don't want children an we say so to God, but He gives us one anyways, isn't that a bit of broken trust? We jes wash back on what we prayed for, what we asked for?

I think it can git really indepth wit arguments actually of all kinds of thins, but God gave us our bodies, they are temples of the holy spirit, but we choose what we eat, we choose if we excersice, we choose wit our spouses wether we have sex. Should we not also choose wether er not we stop conception from ever havin the chance to happen?

I'm interested in hearin what you think, espcially those against bc in any form. Why is it wrong? etc

I am pretty sure I don't want anymore children, they have been a real heart ache to me, not at all thier faults but because I miss everthin an I really hate missin my own children, that an le's be honest, it's expensive as well, an we are soooooo broke sooooo often that I really jes don't know anythin anymore. So I am really thinkin bout gittin chopped off at the boys ya know...

bc ok imho

You bring up some wonderful points. First lets lay out the different kinds of birth control there are and address each of them individually because each of them have different moral implications.

1. Abstainance

2. Barriers-condoms, diaphrams, femal condom...

3. Hormonal birth control pills

4. Intrauterine Device--IUDs


We all agree that abstainance is like the perfect form of birth control, so we really don't need to discuss that one.

The barrier method is not 100% reliable as those little suckers are sneaky. As for whether it is right or wrong, people will disagree. Because the barriers prevent fertilization, they are not abortificient, but some will say they are wrong because we are refusing to allow the possibility of a pregnancy.

Hormonal birth control pills work in three different ways. They inhibit ovulation, thicken cervical mucous making it harder for sperm entry, and they thin the endometrium, the lining of the uterus.

There are currently 2 different IUDs on the market. One is the copper one and the other is a time release one that releases the drug Levonorgestrel into the system which thins the uterine lining and thickens cervical mucous.

I have done extensive research on the different kinds of birth control-the pill and the IUDs. For a year I had the Mirena IUD--it was the one that releases the drug into your system. I had no periods whatsoever and everything seemed good. I studied up on it and found out that the drug I was allowing to be released into my system in tiny quantities-Levonorgestrel-is the exact same drug that is given in larger doses as the Plan B morning after pill. After the first year on Mirena, your body returns to ovulating 85% of the time. The lining of the uterus is so thin and practically nonexistant (that's why I had no periods) that if a sperm did sneak in there and one of those eggs that were released during one of those 85% of your monthly cycles, gets fertilized, then that zygote cannot implant and will abort. IUDs are a no no if you believe that life begins at conception-the joining of egg and sperm.

Hormonal birth control pills, the ones you take daily, work in the above mentioned three ways. What most people don't know is that in the 1970's the package inserts that come with those pills stated that the pill prevents implantation. The pro life people were so up in arms about the pill that the pharmacutical companies took that statement out of the inserts. Now it simply says "thins lining of uterus, thickens cervical mucous, and inhibits ovulation." Now, I got pregnant while taking the pill. This means that I was ovulating even with the ovulation inhibiting drug. When the uturus forms its lining, the lining is thick enough to supply a fertilized egg with a good healthy place to implant. When we thin the lining of the uterus with drugs, the lining becomes weak and often too thin to support a newly formed life. That is how the pill prevents implantation. The lining of the uterus becomes a hostile environment. I'm sure you all know someone who got pregnant on the pill, so we know that ovulation sometimes does happen and that pregnancies sometimes occur, regardless of the pill. What we don't know is how often ovulation happens, conception occurs, but the lining is too weak to support that life and that new life is aborted. Hormonal BC pills are abortifacient.

I have so much to say here but have to go for now. I'll come back to this later and address some of the questions you asked...Possibly tomorrow..

I see nothing wrong with birth control. I know God said to be fruitful and multiply but He also wants us to use common sense. We can NOT afford another child. I also know my own personal limitations. So we take precautions. :)

QFT

I don't have a problem with birth control. I got snipped. I know Squat did as well.

One needs to find a way to keep your household within your income level. I think that's biblical... If that means you are either abstinent or use birth control, it's your choice. But God also blesses the marriage bed for the sake of enjoyment - read the Song of Solomon or even Genesis 26:8 (KJV puts it a little more plainly than NIV).

Snip. Most insurances cover it for free. If you can't financially handle another kid, do something to stop it.

:agree:

It's important to read all scripture in the context in which it was given and I believe this is a clear case of the need for care in interpretation.

Gen 1:28 says "God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it"...etc etc

The context here is that this command was given to Adam and Eve, the first male and female. They needed to populate the earth. Same with Noah - context. I don't remember it elsewhere. I should look it up. It wasn't a command given to all people for all time. And even if it is considered as a command given to the human race in general, I think it could be reasonably considered that we have done just that - multiplied and filled the earth.

As for trusting God with the womb rather than using birth control, if we were to accept that logic then we really should do that in EVERY area of our lives. For example, that means no medications - we should trust God as to whether we are healed or not. based on the fact that God says "He is the Lord that heals us". and yet if a parent didn't give a child needed medication we would consider that unwise and even neglect. It's the same thing just in a different scenario. We accept medications as a part of the outworking of the intelligence God gave us, why would that suddenly not apply to birth control.

That's my opinion anyway. I think anything else is a form of legalism.

I agree, Hope. God (imho) gave us the doctors, medicines, etc so we can make informed decisions. He didn't give mom cancer but He did give her the medicines, doctors, & treatments that enabled her to celebrate the holidays with us. He also gave the research and treatments I'll need to look into so I can do as much as possible to ensure I don't follow down the same road.....but that's another topic! :)

He wants us to be smart. We've got the means to practice birth control if we feel convicted to do so. That's what I think, anyways! :wave:

Interesting :)

I don't understand what you mean here...Broken trust?? What do you mean "jes wash back on what we prayed for, what we asked for?" I don't understand.. I'll address this if you'll clarify, please..

On one hand we should definately be responsible and not allow ourselves reproduce like animals. However, our current cultural climate is one that encourages animal like behavior when it comes to sex. Do it much, do it freely, and indulge to the greatest extent. As modern Christians we get this message from society and we get no other message regarding sex from the faith we've been brought up in other than "wait till you're married". Our religious leaders do not teach us about moderation and self control. The do not speak of denying the self and the desires of the self. Many groups actually encourage treating, pampering, and indulging the self because they teach a false gospel of God wanting us to be fully indulged and living it up in this life.

God gave us minds to think with. He gave us the sense to know how and when pregnancy occurs. Common sense says withhold from sex during those times, but our sex imbibed culture and media say "No!! Take a pill, and do it all the time! Do it whenever you want and don't deny those desires within you!" Can you see how this contradicts with the commandment to "Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me." Modern Christians have forgotten what it means to "deny yourself". Sometimes it means resisting sexual urges, sometimes it means simply don't go back for seconds. The urges of the body aren't bad, but when we constantly give in to them, we become a slave of them. (this will come back around to BC) The apostle Paul tells us by example that we are to be master over our bodies rather than let our bodies(our desires and urges) be master over us. In this passage he discusses being temperate in all things (that means not indulging and only doing things in moderation) and "disciplining" the body.

Since this thread is not about keeping or loosing salvation we'll not discuss the last half of the final verse but only focus on the parts that discuss self denial.

The birth control pill enables us to do just what we are commanded not to do. Indulge every sexual desire with no temperance or moderation or natural consequence. As I exlained in my previous post, the pill is not fail proof. People do indeed ovulate sometimes when they take it. Pregnancies sometimes occur. What we Christians need to face up to is this fact that the pill turns the lush and healthy endometrium into a thin weak hazardous place for the fertilized egg. If ovulation occurs, and fertilization occurs, and life begins at conception, How can any Christian justify the thinning and weakening the nourishing place for those possibly fertilized eggs, causing them to die and be flushed out? All in the name of "responsibility"? Really it is just so that the persons involved can indulge in sex without any thought of temperance or self control. We've stuck our heads in the sand and plugged our ears with our fingers and we just don't want to hear it or to know about it. Hearing and knowing what we're really doing to our bodies and to our potentially fertilized eggs means admitting that we're wrong. I'll be the first to say that I am guilty. I took the pill for quite a while, and though I did get pregnant while on it, I do not know how many eggs may have been fertilized before and died because I made my body a cruel place for it to live. I may very well be guilty of murder, but I just don't know. If that is the case, i pray that God will forgive me for the mistakes I made in my ignorance.


There are other ways to avoid pregnancy that will not endanger innocent lives.







I have dinner to make and a prayer service to attend. I'll be back tomorrow.

Let me give an example, spose Sarah an I are done havin kids, we pray bout it an feel that it's ok to stop havin kids, but do not do anythin physical er drug wise to prevent a child. We're livin right an trustin God an then BAM! Sarah's prego. But wait a minute, we're livin for the Lord, we're doin everthin we can for Him, we trusted He wouldn't give us another child yet... here one comes. So did God break our trust? Do we start second guessin God? That's where I was goin wit the one comment.

The rest of what you said, I agree that the pill is a bad idea, if there were a 100% fail safe chance etc that the pill would prevent ovulation 100% of the time then I wouldn't mind it, but since it doesn't an there is even the slightest chance of ovulation we won't run the risk of losin a baby. As far as other thins, if I am understandin what you are sayin it sounds to me personnaly another one of those ideas that's been made into a theology. For example, no where in scriputre does it say to deny your spouse sex, infact it gives very clear guidlines on how an when etc to abstain from sex, but also gives caution to not wait to long as to allow temptation to come in. An Paul is the one that said to marry if you cain't control the urges which God gave to us. Somewhere along the lines it got horribly misunderstood that sex, er to enjoy sex, er to have sex wit your spouse was a bad, evil, nasty, dishonorable, sinful thin before God. An it's not! It is a gift from God, givin to us, to be enjoyed wit our sposuses.

The notion of denyin ones sef is one thin, but sex isn't jes bout denyin yoursef, it's also denyin your spouse, so then what? You gotta go git your spouse to jump on board wit you in denyin it?

I don't see sex as bein a treat, er present, to only be given once in a while, because then it begs the question, who gits to decide when we can an can not have sex wit our spouse?

While I understand what you are sayin I think we're jes a bit off on idealogy vs theology. Sex is a free gift given to us by God to be used to pleasure each other, see this is sumthin I really don't git. This isn't one of those takin up your cross moments. If Sarah doesn't want sex an I do, am I sposed to jes jump up an say, well here I go takin my cross ... right into the other room to be pissed off. No this hasn't anythin to do wit God, now if it were a matter of Sarah involved in study er prayer an I'm beatin on the door for sex then it's still not takin up your cross type thin, but it's me interferrin wit er walk which carries it's own problems.

When Jesus said to take up our cross an follow Him, He wasn't sayin to deny your spouse er yoursef the pleasure that God has given to us. I don't even think this has anythin to do wit sef control. Because, like Paul said, git married as it's better then livin in sin.

If Sarah an I choose to not have sex because we want to fast an pray then great, but this isn't one of those thins you can use as a weapon.

Some would argue that countin days is birth control an wrong, that's what I'm tryin to figure out anyways. If birth control is wrong, then so would NFP etc. Not to mention, while a woman's egg is only available for fertilization for like 36 hours er less, guys sperm can live 7-10 days in the uterous as it is. So that leaves alot of the month out as it is, couple that togeather wit female plumbin issues of a week, your down to have one week where you can have sex for the most part. I'm realitively sure that God didn't intend to give us such desires to only be used once a month.

I'll not touch losin salvation either... cause it would brin into question when Jesus said, nuthin the father gives to me, can anythin pluck it out of my hand.

The biggest thin I'm tryin to see by folks, an protestants haven't had anythin to say here really, jes their fine wit it etc. I'm lookin at gittin my boys chopped off, an I'm lookin at the righteousness involved in it. If folks consider it sin, why? Somewhere along the lines also, folks got this screwed up notion that we must suffer at ever minute of ever day in this world. Why then did God make sure thins that gives us pleasure? Food? Sunsets? A long bath, er walk even? No we don't havta suffer here in order to git to heaven. Do we suffer? Sure we do, but is it because God decided our quota wasn't met for the month? No, He builds strength an character in us. I really feel sorry for people who feel they must suffer in this world an then feel guilty because they enjoyed sumthin that God had made. Ever blessin from God is to be enjoyed, I enjoy my kids for example, I shouldn't feel guilty bout that, nor should anyone.

Some people take ritualism and legalism too far. Others don't take it far enough. I hope that I'm on the right side of the balance, but I can't say for certain that someone else is not.

How can I say it's not a sin to be rendered infertile? I can't. But I also don't see where the scripture presented says it is a sin. Since I am unqualified to make any intelligent comment on the issue, I shall bow out.

It's not a matter of broken trust, it's a matter or broken beliefs. For years I guess I felt the same way, and I think a lot of groups teach that if you are faithful to God your temporal life here will be blessed and good, but that's just messed up and very far from the truth. Good people suffer, bad people seem to get breaks all the time, but this is a mystery. Some bad people are just given over to their vain pursuits and live it up for a time, but in the age to come will be cast into outer darkness. Some good people will suffer all kinds of terrible sh-- in this life, but will receive the greatest rewards in the Kingdom of Heaven.

I guess we agree on birth control. The bottom line is you can't kill your children, even if they are tiny embryos. You can abstain for a time if you and Sarah ever on in agreement, but it's better not to do this if it might result in problems.

Basil

This pastor in Florida disagrees with you completely.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/20/...e=mostpop_story

Hey! Stop derailing!

Interesting topic though.. Start another thread and we'll discuss :D

I'm not derailing: you stated that couples should pay attention to the time of the month, etc. And here is a pastor saying do it everyday for a month, obviously he either wants to do a lot of baptisms in about 9 months, or he is in favor of birth control.

But that is not to say that all our days sre to be spent in suffering and misery. A2J was mentioning previously some people who think we have to pretty much induce suffering upon ourselves all the time, which is totally not the case at all. I think there were some Roman Catholic monastics that used to do that, believing that the body was bad and must be "punished" Aren't they the ones that did the self flagellation and such?

The Creator of the universe is not there to bow to us and give us everything we want just because we think we're being obedient to him. Yes the Scripture tells us that God will give us things we ask for, but Scripture also tells us not to be selfish, self centered, vain, greedy, etc...Not to ask for things that will be self serving, indulgent, and so on...God is not a magic geniw out there to grant our every wish. Too many times we itty bitty creations of the Master think we have authority over the Master and can get Him to give us what we want when we want--simply because we have misunderstood and misinterpreted and been taught wrong things about His Word. Remember, its "God's will be done" not ours. To assume that you won't get pregnant when you're having sex and then getting mad at God when it happens would be like standing out in the rain and expecting not to get wet.

No. God didn't break anyone's trust. God never promised to give us everything we want and ask for. If there is any second guessing to be done, it should be about those things you've been taught about God and what the Holy Scriptures say. God is not to be "second guessed" but false teachings are.

Oh, and sperm live 3-5 days inside the woman. My biology prof. always said they bring a sack lunch to live on for a few days. :P

So there are more days available for nookie. That 7-10 days thing would make it pretty difficult.. :o

Yeah, we don't walk around hitting our heads with boards or wearing hair shirts to iritate the crap out of our bodies, because they are not our enemy. I was telling my kids the other day that our bodies are wiley rascals that must be brought under submission of our spirits, but they in themselves are not evil, just fallen and in need of sanctification. We must work to buffet our bodies to bring them under submission to Christ.

We do voluntarily take on some controlled suffering like fasting, but most of the real suffering we encounter if given by God for the working out of our salvation, so in the midst of crap, we must learn to give thanks. "All things work together for the good of those who love the Lord, and are called according to His purpose." Good and bad, it's all gain for us who love Christ.

Basil

We never actually addressed half of the questions or points that were brought up in the OP.. This thread kind of fizzled out..

In our modern society, where we use drugs or other medical means to limit the number of children that we have, rather than practising self control, we have in fact grown out of control in our indulgence of sex and other areas of passion in our lives (food, entertainment, acquiring 'stuff', etc...).
God is the Author of life. God created marriage partly for the production and raising of children, yet He also gave us free will. We can use our free will to be obedient to God or we can use our free will to paricipate in self gratification even if it is against His will.

I believe this is the same with sterilization. God created us whole. He gave us sense enough to know what makes babies. He gave us intellegence to know how to avoid making babies. I believe that to surgically alter our bodies so that we can indulge in consequence free sex (which by the way is a relatively new concept in the entire history of man) is evidence of the growing selfisness in modern humans. We want the cause without the effect. Self control seems almost ridiculous to our modern ears. We live in a world in which getting and experiencing the maximum pleasure, regardless of the potential consequences, is the norm. And when it comes to sex, we want it all. We want the fun, pleasure, and enjoyment without the effects that God created to go along with it. We are unwilling to accept the life that God may desire to give us. And so we alter our bodies to quit working the way God created them to work. We claim, "I can't afford it", a seemingly legitimate reason, but that only says that we refuse to rely on God to provide, that we don't belive Him when He promises to "provide all our need."

We don't like it when things happen, like unexpected pregnancies, that will change our life. We want to be in control of every aspect in every area. That is our free will. As Christians we have to choose to either feed and give in to our own wills, our wants, and our desires or to give them up to God's will, to allow His will to be done in our lives. Oftentimes we don't necessarily like what God wills for us, but that is just our refusal to be in submission to Him, something we need to work on within our own spirit.

Self-control? It's not just about self-control. Just look at an example from our life. Louis and I didn't see each other for 7 weeks. He was then home for 1 day and then had to leave again. Coming together was not about the pleasure or self gratification but the survival of the marriage. Sex is an important part of marriage. God himself created it that way.

And I don't see what the difference is between NFP and sterilization or anything in between. They are all attempts to control the timing/amount of children. So to use "self control" in order to control birth is just as selfish as using any other method of birth control. Unless you leave it TOTALLY up to God i.e. Quiverful then it's all just a matter of "selfishness".

Not exactly. By practising NFP or abstainance and using self control during those fertile times, we are still leaving God room to create life if it is His will. The other ways, the ones that are more selfish, we take it all into our own hands and using our free will we've been granted, enforce our will in every way and over every aspect of conception.

Oh, people will argue "If God wants you to have a baby then a condom won't stop him" But that statement kind of negates that God gave us free will and says that he will overpower our will if He wants to. But God is love. Love doesn't force itself. IF the condom breaks or the pill fails, it is not because God made it happen, it is because it was made by man and is thereby faulty.

By "leaving God room" I mean that we are willing to accept what may happen, willing to accept another child if it is God's will. By accepting what God may give, we are not being as selfish.

I struggle with this very issue myself. I understand totally everything you are thinking and feeling. I've been there and am there. It is hard not to want to just do what the world says is an okie dokie thing to do.

And as for the "quiverful" thing--that is irresponsible. If you are well off and want that then go for it, but most us us should have better sense. God gave us better sense..

And I know what you mean about the 7 weeks things.. Been there. Frequently there. Sorry, tmi..

abstainance sucks

This is why Sarah started the other thread, becasuse there isn't one shread of any information here that would convince me that there is anythin at all wrong er immorale to git fixed.

I am readin a ton of double speak though, for example ANYTHIN we do that *could* affect the meetin of sperm an egg IS by definitions provided here selfish/worldly/against God.

NFP is a form of birth control, if you don't have sex er otherwise prevent sperm an egg meetin you are involved in controllin pregnacy. You are not leavin it open to God anymore then usin a condom an sayin it broke therefore it was God's will.

Usin the examples here... I'm quite baffeled by it actually. String said it's not bein selfish 'exactly' because your leavin yoursef open to the prospect of gittin prego.... thats simply not the case, if you abstain er nfp er whatever you are not open to gittin prego so then it doesn't matter what birth control you use. Because it's still some form of birth control an like you said, God isn't goin to miracoulously transplant sperm from your husband an force pregnancy on you if you've performed nfp er sumthin else.

Becareful sayin you know what it's like to be apart for 2 months, you may very well know however, be advised we're not talkin bout 2 months witout sex, we are talkin 2 months wit no physical contact at all, no kissin, no touchin, no hugs no sleepin next to each other, an takin this a bit further... we would, by the defintions given here been selfish if we didn't have sex the one day I was home if we didn't want to git prego an THEN we would have been in violation of scripture of denyin our spouse.

This sounds EXACTLY like a cake an eat it to ordeal to me, you can not have it both ways. By your own words, quiverful is irresponsible.. ok I agree, so what then do you do? If you claim you are doin nuthin then by defalt you are practicin the ideals of quiverful, same wit us, if we do nuthin then we'll keep makin babies that I can not afford nor even rasie, an on that I don't think anyone here can fully appreciate. Sarah is on er own wit the kids an I am no father to them, those are jes the facts, a phone call er email does not rasie a child. So if you were in my position, jes what the hell would you do? Keep poppin kids out I don't know? I could jes do that all cross the country, not at all interested in spreadin my seed, would rather rasie a faimly.....

Your ovulation was early, your ovulation was late, your sperm lived longer than expected, in all cases the potential for God to create life was left open and not prevented by chemical or medical means.

"Open to"--meaning the potential has not een eliminated 100%...Not willing or psychologically "open to"..I can see how that phrase could have more meaning than the one I intended..

Don't just do nothing. Be aware of fertility and work around it. Use a condom and a diaphram. Don't sit on your hands and give up and run to surgery as the answer. And always consider that God is the giver of children.

And for what its worth--get out of that truck!! The financial implications will be worth it for you to be at home...The kids will never think back and say I sure wish dad had stayed in that truck! Then I coulda had piano lessons and soccer teams!

No. Having you around will mean much more to those kids than tons of clothes in the closet or a lots of land to grow up on..

Doing NFP is forcing your will on God. How is that any different than wearing a condom and saying since there is the possibility it could break I'm leaving that room for God to give a child if He wants. Our will and intent is still there whether it be NFP, condoms, the pill, sterilization, etc.

We're "open to" more babies with your line of thinking. Afterall NO form of birth control is 100% effective (including sterilization) so there's always room for God to move. And we ARE "open to" God moving. If Louis or I were to get sterilized and God "moved" to make us pregnant we would of course keep the baby. IMO birth control is an all or nothing. You either use it or you don't. And the only way to not use it is to be Quiverful.

And how many babies does it take before it's ok to "give up and run to surgery"? We've already had two babies using non-surgical birth control. What's wrong with using just another form of birth control? Cos that's all sterilization is.

And we do consider that God is the giver of children. Period.

And you just don't get the truck deal. Louis is not out there so we can have "things". He's out there so we can survive.

And back on topic..........God also gave us common sense. I KNOW we can't afford another child, we simply can't. Period. It would be stretching us too far and that doesn't mean I don't trust God to provide, I have the smarts He gave me to know our limits.

As for sterilization, He gave us smarts there as well. Not only for family planning, but in my case to lower my risk of cancer. Some may say to trust in God that I won't get it, or if I'm going to get cancer, I'll get it no matter what I do. I say that God gave the medical knowledge and advancements in order for me to be able to take steps to prevent it as much as I'm able to do.

God wants us to trust in Him but I believe He also wants us to be smart about it.

..

Rather than controlling the process, by either birth control methods or natural family planning, we must carefully look inward to try and understand our motive for using any method to prevent pregnancy. A spiritual father can be a big help here, because as we know we don't always see ourselves accurately or fully. Many of our reasons for limiting our family size may sound good, but be based, sometimes beyond our ability to see, on selfish motives. God will provide what we need--materially, emotionally, and spiritually--we need not spend a minute worrying about that.

Sweetie, I disagree with this. :hide:

Although God gives us a free will to choose or reject Him, He does direct our paths in the way which is most advantageous for our salvation. We must give Him thanks for all things, both those things which are clearly good at face value, and those things which seem bad or difficult, but are really good for our salvation. We may choose to use a barrier method, but if it would be beneficial for us to have a child, it may break, according to the will of God. If a person uses a barrier method and happens to be selfishly trying to prevent pregnancy to maintian a particular lifestyle or standard of living, God may also allow them to suffer the consequences of that sin. He knows what the result would be either way--for a pregnancy to happen despite their effort to prevent it--and according to His perfect will He acts.

So, should we just try to prevent it, and allow Him to override our decision? No way. Is it any benefit to act in opposition or resistance to the will of the Giver of Life? What if Mary had said, "Gabriel, thank God for the offer, but I've already committed myself to being a virgin, and everyone will think I broke that vow, which could, of course cause me to be stoned to death." We should approach this subject with the same humility saying, "Let it be according to Thy will." Let's just have fun, nurture our marital relationship, and accept what God wills to happen. In some rare cases it may be best to avoid pregnancy, using ethical methods, but it'd be best to have a spiritual shepherd help with this decision.

Basil