I have had to come to a conclusion that I had really hoped I wouldn't have to come to.....

After watchin the shameful pathetic display of shear stupidity the other day of the whole televangilists stuff I have come to realize that what I feel towards the catholics an the beliefs they have an the like, I now feel the same way towards the orthodox. I don't mean this to sound mean. But.. as Sarah can attest to.

For several years I tried desperately to keep an open mind towards the catholics, even tried watchin some of the catholic masses deals an walked away each time thinkin this is not the Christ I know. an I have always known bout the stupid assine fight that the orthodox an catholics have over who is the FIRST church, er who is RIGHT an who is wrong an all that sort of literal bullshit. But I have noticed there jes isn't any difference in the attitude between the catholics an the orthodox in reality. I "argued" wit catholics in GT over yonder for a long time an then I tried to understand em an couldn't.. I applied the same thin wit orthodox an unfortuneatly it's the exact same thin wit them. See the catholics would always treat anyone not of thier faith like they were a lessor form of life, an there was absoultely no need to talk to anyone witout bein condensendin er sarcastic. Many times over I see the orthodox doin the same thin.

One thin I learned... since the "claim" that there was no written texts of the New Testimate until like 400 AD an only the orthodox have preserved the context of any of the scriputre etc etc etc etc but.. that's like 370 years of word of mouth. Yet the orthodox claim they are the only ones that have it right. I donno I don't even mind those claims, but to contiunously attack protestants ALL the time wit claims of false teachers an stuff I mean c'mon..... it's find to have a belief, it's quite another to beat folks over the head wit it. Now I started to git into the talks over there but jes haven't had the ability an now the thread has run off so I haven't even bothered to catch up on it. But I can tell, it's jes the same o'l fight all the time, an I have now got to simply wash my hands of it. I literally got mad the other day because of the dumbass attitude that I seen, not jes there, but the combination of everthin else that I've seen. It always comes back to only one person er faith rather bein right... I jes cain't fathom why my God would allow any single one of us to be the only faith that's right. Surely folks can see that the brag factor, er pride factor would be allowed to be used in any way shape er form. I am pretty confident that when we stand before God He is goin to say we are ALL wrong. All of us....

One note bout the stuff goin on in that other thread... anyone care to argue this same stuff over King Solomon, er David? I thought not...........

I'm sorry that I have come to this conclusion, I was really hopin it wouldn't be the same opinion as it is wit the catholics... more an more division an it's jes really sad. I have to rank Jevoahs witness in the same boat, although I have noticed even they aren't as snippy, as sarcastic as condecendin as both the catholics an the orthodox.

:burp: I'll comment later.

:( I'm sorry, Lewis, but this post is the stupidest thing I've read on here, maybe ever. Sadly, that's saying a lot.

Your comments prove you know nothing about what you're talking about. You're wrong about what we believe about written scripture, you wrong about our conflict with the Roman Catholics just being a cock contest to see who's biggest, you're wrong if you believe that just because there are thousands of splintered groups that there could not possibly be one that has preserved truth, because if you say that then you are saying that the gates of hell prevailed against Christ's Church.

If you spent less time ranting, perhaps you could funnel that energy into examining the irrefutable evidence. If you learn what really happened those first few hundred years you'll see that beyond any reasonable doubt Christ formed one united Church to be His Body upon the earth. He filled this Body with the power of the Holy Spirit to protect it from error and defend it from its enemies. Satan has done all he can to separate men from the Church. Many don't even believe that the Church founded by Christ could even still exist, it's been so effectively hidden from many of us by the devil. Now we say stupid stuff like no one is right or right or wrong belief doesn't even matter.

A foolish man, who I won't name said, "Let God sort out all this doctrinal doo doo." How stupid. Doctrine is just a biblical word for what we believe or understand about God. To say that our understanding of God doesn't matter is idiotic. True understanding helps us find the way Home, into the Kingdom of God. If we are ignorant of truth, then we waste time with worthless labor, a false sense of security, or a false sense of insecurity about our salvation. Lewis, does truth matter? If truth matters, should we defend it? If truth matters, should we seek it, or just keep believeing things we've been taught by modern preachers, without even looking deep enough to see if it's true, or just something some guy came up with 1900 years after Christ's resurrection. If truth matters should we examine our own interpretation or understanding of things to see if we are correct? Who wants to stand before Christ and find out then, that they've been wrong, and maybe even led others astray unknowingly? Seek truth here and now, because we get one life and then the judgement. If you're correct, your efforts will prove it, so there's no reason to fear looking into it a little more. If you're wrong, you'll thank God for assholes like me who challenged you to think about these things, rather than letting you just sit back and blindly go through life following what feels good or seems right, whether it is or not.

Please don't mistake my tone for anger. Please don't let the mods delete this because compared to your attacks on the faith of others and the language you use on here without censorship all the time, this is G-rated. I believe you really care about these things, but maybe are just a little too lazy to look into it in greater depth. Study to show yourself approved. I pray you'll be granted many years to have time to sort this stuff out.

Cliff, if you can not spell my name correctly please do not bother mentionin it. Thanks.

Stupidest thin huh? Well... I don't have the service to look it up, but String was the one in a thread not to long back to discuss the 400 year gap in sposed written doctrine. So we'll jes leave it at this: I'll burn in hell because your Jesus is NOT my Jesus an I don't want to know a derned thin bout the flat out warped crap you spit out half the time. You've jes proven my point 100%. Constant condencendin attitudes, constant attacks an ANYTHIN that is not orthodox faith. Le'me tell you this, this crap for example of literally praisin dead people for example, ya know the saints.. oh yes.. I know you'll throw in a bunch of fancy lingo to say your really not praisein er prayin to these guys etc etc is flat out wrong an NOT based in scriputre, yes I know you'd jes love to pull one scripture out an say SEE LOOK IT'S RIGHT THERE... an then of course we could argue for a week over silly thins like... oh I donno... how's bout the catholic claim that there is NO scripture to claim that God is three in one??? Even though there is etc etc etc etc... I'm done playin stupid games wit you an String, as people? No but as far as faith goes. I believe you an the catholics both, your faiths are so simular even though you'd like folks to believe other wise, you git so caught up in ritrual crap that I havta really wonder when the last time was the orthodx faith er catholic for that matter actually led someone to Christ.

My God did not make it hard to git to Him, depsite what crap you an the priests an etc etc would have folks believe, it is a very simple thin. Believe on the Lord an you'll be saved, that's jes bout quoted exactly as it's been translated.. please go ahead an tell me now how we've got that all so wrong from all the FALSE teachers etc etc.

In my opinion, an it's my belief you've got the scripture bout satan not prevailin against us completely out of context an has not one derned thin to do wit a single unified church... cause ... erm... I'm not to sure if you realize this er not... but uh... there is not a single unified church here! You wish to claim that the orthodox is.... fine, stick a feather in your cap, lord it over folks an beat the ever livin shit right out of em for it, I'm not goin to argue the point wit you. That scripture I believe is talkin bout the believer an the gates of hell will not prevail agsint those in Christ. Now le's boil it down... don't be afraid of anyone here cause I would imagine to some degree we've all been in this position.

Take the stance as the catholics have done, tell me I am lost, a sinner an goin to burn in hell because *I* am not orthodox. Then go find some damned to hell catholic (an I don't mean that as an insult but truth) an argue over wether er not they are saved.

I cain't tell you how many times I have heard it from catholics. An a lil story, I even told one one time to convert me then, stop all the crap an tell me how to be right wit Christ. Wanna know what the answer was? This was funny, really to me it was. "You don't need to be converted." period... end of discussion... I wonder why..... hmmm I still do.

If we are all so mother frackin wrong, then why in the hell aren't catholics an orthodox actually concerned more bout the salvation of lost folks then they are over arguin bout stupid crap of who is right?!

My mind was flat boggeled by the crap of televangist thread.. even by those who are protestant... since I fell behind on that thread anyways... I'll jes say it here. What is wrong wit God's blessins? Each of those on the other side want to beat the crap out of these folks when it's a matter of crap. Not one of us gives ever single dime back to Christ, not one of us sacrafices all. No one here does it. Why? Well for starters, we each have at least one puter an we are all on-line... could that not also be given to Christ?? I git so dern mad bout silliness. Folks want to beat the snot out of someone else an really show the love of Christ by sayin dumb thins like some stupid government needs to investigate these people.... a scripture comes to mind, though I don't member where it is, but it says woe to those pastors that lead my flock astray. My goodness, do none of you realize that this is God's domain? If God blesses er takes away, Blessed be the Lord. Period. I have no doubt man is involved in shady deals, but to go on an on that they are nuthin more then false teachers because they have a fancy car... c'mon!

Another lil story, I heard this from Jesse Duplantis here a few years back. He had some fancy motorcycle an he said he kept feelin God tuggin on em to give it away to someone, I don't member who, an he fussed an fussed over it for a while an then decided that God was right (of course) an he gave it away. A week later, someone in the church came in an gave em a better newer bike. So what do you do? What do you do if you were in that position? Refuse God's blessin? Cast it to the ground?? Do none of you realize that it is NOT God's wish they we live in finacial disaster? Moopin round like we jes lost our best freind all the time?? WHERE is the joy of the Lord in any of you?! I see it so very often wit the catholics an many of the orthodox (though admittedly I don't know very many) actin like they must live in shear disaster. Completely discountin all scriputre of the blessins of God, an all of His promises bein yes an amen. You wanna live like that, jes have at it, but I'll stand on God's word when He said he would pour out a blessin, so much that I could not contain it, 30,60 an 100 fold.

Now this is where you git really stupid... folks wanna think that if I "willinly" give God a dollar, he's goin to give me 100 dollars back... this is stupid, I hate that people cain't see the shear stupidity here. God never promised He'd double our money! But He did say He'd pour out a blessin that we couldn't contain. Wether that's money, health, a car, a child it doesn't matter!

I honestly think there is lil difference between what I know of both the orthodox an catholic faiths... it's a power trip an it's wrong. We are not to be in bondage, I will not be in bondage of any kind, I am a child of God the father period. Stop over complicatin thins, God didn't make it so we had to jump through a ton of hoops so we might jes maybe, perhaps have a snow balls chance in hell of maybe bein saved! He said He is the truth the way an the life, an NO ONE comes to the father but by Him an if we believe in our hearts an confess wit our mouths that Jesus is Lord we will be saved. It NEVER said we might be saved er maybe kinda sorta. He said we would be saved.

It doesn't have to be complcated, it doesn't havta be a right er wrong, er we are better then you, er lorded over somoene, an that is the ONE thin I see that the orthodox an catholics both do.

Since you mentioned that I don't know anythin bout your fight wit the catholic church, answer me this... why is there a "fight" in the first place?

As far as mods.. I have NO control over any of that period. Jes cause I sleep wit one of em doesn't make a hill of beans to anythin that goes on here. Bare that in mind, I am no ones enemy, but I will say this, Sarah said sumthin to me on the phone the other day bout orthodox an I literally jes cut er off, mad as a hornet cause I jes flat out didn't care anymore, I really don't. An le'me tell you why, the whole point of allllll of this. It's the attitude that I have recieved from both the orthodox an catholics.... we're all "sposed" to be brothers an sisters in Christ, an yet I am always left bein brow beat an talked down to. Thank you but no... I'll not have anythin more to do wit it. I'm tired of shear stupidity.

I'll also say this. I have my bible in my truck, I have read it from cover to cover an jes because the NT wasn't... accordin to ya'll, written on paper til 400 years later an there was of course no room for error there... the OT was written an what I read there an what I read in the NT works. I don't care bout the numerous other books folks have said are scripture, they don't make a sqaut to me. Nor do I believe there is anythin at all wrong wit the NT. The context fits right along side the OT in my opinion.

Folks wanna play the context game all the time, I'm all for that, READ THE SCRIPTURE IN CONTEXT! You cain't jes take this scripture an that an make it say whatever you want it to. An I see that everwhere, everone does this. To an extent I can see it bein ok, in a way such as, in the gneral since of the word sin. Flip to this book an look to see what Paul said bout sin, now look at what Moses said bout sin, see here what Jesus said bout sin. That's fine, it's different folks all talkin bout sin. But you cain't take one scripture an then build an entire religion round it like orthodox an catcholics have done, catholics did it wit Mary an the prayin to saint's, an orthodox have done that wit prayin to saints.

I member you Basil here a while back in a discussion bout end times say to me (I never bothered to respond) say that God won't destroy sumthin He has created.... HELLO??!? He's already done it! He'll do it agin, He said He will. I donno why you'd think that but it's sumthin you said, I can only assume that it is your personal interpetation er a single misguided belief er the like.

So much of alllll of this ties back into its sef I think if folks don't screw up God's simplicity in life.

Basil, just to clarify, I cannot see why this post would be deleted. The ONLY reason the others were was because they came on a thread that the OP never intended to be about the Orthodox etc discussion and even asked for it not to o that way when it started to head in that direction.

If you had taken those posts to a new thread in theology they would have been able to stand as they were.

This thread is different as A2J has specifically started it with the whole 'one church' discussion.

In regards to this

I don't know who you are referring to in this but I certainly don't believe that, and neither am I aware of others here who feel that way. The issue is that I don't agree with some of what you believe is right and wrong. Having said that, from what I can tell my understanding of theological issues is probably closer to yours than to many others here.

But no matter how right you believe you are about the Orthodox church only having preserved the truth I believe you are wrong about that. That does not mean that I don't think right and wrong matter. I do!!

But I believe that what you are saying is wrong, and that it does matter and you are misrepresenting the gospel. We disagree on this point and I don't see at this rate that we ever will agree.

And I cannot see the point of going round and round on one fundamental point of difference when your main argument is that you are right because your church has maintained the truth. It is circular and will never stop.

:popcorn:

It just floors me how some religions can be so so SO assured of how things are going to come out in the end, exactly who is going to make it into Heaven and who's not and why.

I'm sure that when we're standing in judgment in front of God, we'll all be amazed to see how very much off base each and every one of us is.

And I'm not afraid to admit it....... :nod:

In the interest of complete fairness, I thought bout this this mornin. When I'm in the truck an cain't git to a truck stop ministry er sumthin of that nature, I listen to an on-line church service broadcast of Jesse Duplantis. I really don't know of anyone else that has one of these broadcasts, but I am completely willin to listen to some orthodox church services if there are any out there. Those that are orthodox, please feel free to post a link, I realize I'll probly havta wait til next week er the like but I do not actually believe I have ever listened to an orthodox church service. This may not be entirely accurate as when I was on the Naval base in Pensicola in mini-boot camp I did attend a service an if I remember correctly it was orthodox, but it was years ago so cain't say for certain. I know cross LA an MS they have catholic radio broadcasts an I've .... uh.. tried to listen to those a time er two.. but the montra of stuff that sounds like sumthin an occult would do normally made me jes turn the derned thin off. But to be fair, before I do actually write off the orthodox faith as bein nuthin more then the same tired nonsense of the catholic, I'd like to hear a service er two of there's.

I don't have very good service, but I'll try an do a search for one an see if I can git anythin to come up.

This link might have something that interests you.........I just looked really quick & couldn't find anything streamed in from a service that was today.....

Orthodox sermons

Well my search was throughly disappointin... continous comments like:

Jes more of the lordin over stuff, more divison, more of the same attitude that the orthodox are the "only" ones that are right :(

So, Basil, I will have Sarah send you a blank tape, I will even send a fedex label to have you return it to me. Record anythin you wish to have me see. Show ME the love of Christ, show ME why I should not believe as I do right now, that the orthodox lord thins over any other faith, that they are sarcastic in thier responses, that they show an evil attitude an do not glorify MY God. Show ME why your God does not bless His people in a spiritual, physical and finacial way. Show ME why we all have it so wrong.

I give you my word that I will watch it objectively from start to finish and then I will make a determination. As Sarah can atest to, my word is all that I have in this life an my word you can take to the bank. As well she can atest, she has watched me agonze over tryin to watch the catholic channels. How deeply it saddens an grieves my heart an spirit to know that the catholic people are a lost and decieved people.

PM me your address an I'll have Sarah mail it to you this week.

Incidently, I have not looked at the link Debbie posted as I am drivin an can not do it justice, will do so when I git stopped in MS later today.

Perhaps you misread what I wrote then..It was the year 325 that the paricular books that make up the New Testament were recognized as Holy Scripture. all other particulars about the faith were indeed passed by word of mouth, but the books and letters, which were written prior, were not recognized as Holy Scripture officially until 397 AD in the 33rd Canon of the local Council of Carthage. Other particulars of the faith were passed orally because persecution of Christians was such a problem they had to keep things hidden. The few copies of the gospels and epistles they had certainly weren't leather bound and in everyone's home. So, yes, you misunderstood and are mistaken about the "400 year gap" thing. The scriptures had been written, but weren't compiled together and recognized as scripture until a while later.

I therefore apologise, but by re-readin this wit your above clarification I can see what you meant by it, however as the bolded piece above I'm sure you can see why I would think you claimed that for 400 years that only the orthodox had the orignial version of what Jesus an the apostles had to say via hear-se er passed down through only oral translation etc.

We cannot judge where God's mercy ends. We have only claimed that the fullness of the faith is here. We have not said that no one outside the Orthodox church will be saved. His mercy extends far and we cannot say who and who will not be saved. We have never presumed to be assured of anyone's salvation, even our own.

...be back later

OrthodoxTV is not a good site. There have podcasts on ancientfaithradio.com and a bunch of good teaching shows at ourlifeinchrist.com .

I found that they have podcasts of our life in christ on ancient faith radio....but there are more episodes of the show on www.ourlifeinchrist.com/archives