There have been many accusations against my husband and I, saying that we think we're "holier than thou", "the only ones going to heaven", "right and you're wrong", etc...

Really there have been no discussions on Orthodox theology. None of you really have much of an idea as to how Orthodox theology compares to your theology and to the Holy Scriptures.

I acknowledge that for the most part, the discussions lately regarding Orthodoxy have been superficial, only focusing on the historical aspect. When it comes to theological points, we haven't ever delved into them...

I propose that we discuss some of these things, just in an informative manner, so that there can be a clearer understanding of how we view things.

This can only be a positive, as it will help you to see and understand our perspective more, and it will help us do likewise..

I have to go to bed now, but I suggest we start with a discussion on the nature of sin, how it seperates us from God, etc...

Having been on both sides of the fence, I know that protestants and Orthodox do indeed see it differently. So, tomorrow I will be back to discuss this...It may be later in the day because I need to be more disciplined in my housework and homeschooling ( :wall: ). Going to do those things first.

Feel free to start talking about sin, what it is, how it affects us, and so on..

See you tomorrow. :wave:

I'm about ready to hit the bed as well, but in a nutshell:

I believe/KNOW we're all sinners.

I don't think God sees any sin bigger than another one, a sin is a sin is a sin.......

As long as you're repentant to God about your sin, He forgives you.

If you're not repentant, He doesn't.

And I think we can talk to God directly about our sins (or anything else, for that matter), we don't have to go through anyone, or have an "interpreter" on our behalf.

That is what I was saying before.

.....then we have something to discuss.

We may not always agree but I am willing to discuss it and consider what you say.

Having said that, I am busy with assignments at the moment, so may not have the time to respond as much as I would like. I'll try though. End of semester is always a challenge (nothing to do with procrastination on my part :bonk: :doh:)

Sin? It's sin... it's a very simple thin in my opinion that folks want to make over complicated.

We are born into sin, we ALL fall short of the glory of God, we all NEED Jesus as a saviour to forgive us our sins, God casts them as far as the east is from the west when we've repented and TURNED from our wicked ways.

God said He remembers our sins no more, it's generally we who pick em up agin an then spend months tryin to git God to remember our sins. Leave that burden at the cross, He did, why cain't we?

I *think* I know where your goin wit this String, but I'm not goin to play that type of a game. We really don't need to over complicate thins, God is a simple God to those who are simple. I wonder if that makes sense to a complicated person? I am a simple person, so God gives it to me simply. Don't do this, Go do that. He doesn't flower it up, surround thins in wonderful mysiteries an then expects me to spend years of my life wastin away tryin to figure out what He means.

Yes sin separtes us from God, it happened at the fall of man, it is born into ever generation since. If I am into porno's an each day I say God forgive me an the next day I jump back into it, the prayer was meaninless because *I* was not repentant an *I* didn't turn from my evil ways. God said, if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

I do not believe er play this whole 'life time of repentance' thin mysef. It's a done deal wit God, He's already forgiven us, it's up to us to walk away from the evil, from the sin.

I kinda think that's where your goin wit the start of this discussion, in regards to talkin bout 'sin'. We've talked in the past bout havin to go to a priest an the like, an I've read where ya'll have talked bout it sorta kinda bein an up in the air thin. Are we really saved er not... is God goin to really forgive us er not when we git to meet em face to face. Personally I find that life a very sad life indeed. It saddens me to know there are those livin today who are *tryin* to do all these thins jes on the hopes that jes maybe, jes in some off chance way, maybe God will forgive them an let them spend eternity wit Him.

It's not complciated. It's simple. Jesus said whoever calls upon my name an repents would be saved. He didn't say they'll have a better chance of bein saved er maybe I'll think bout tryin to convince God my father to forgive them. He said He would save us. The only real issue when it comes to sin is wether er not we have repented of it, have we turned from that sin in our lives that was bein a wedge between a right relationship wit us an God?

Like Deb said, sin is sin is sin, God makes only one instance of sin greater then the other an that was blasphmey against the holy spirit, otherwise, they are all sin an all fell short of Him. Does that mean because I am into porn an.. uh.. say wife beatin er whatever, an have repented of wife beatin, have stopped it, but haven't quite gotten away from the porn, does that mean I am unrepentant of all sin an will burn in hell? I think the decidin deal there is, am I livin in my sin, er am I strugglin against it an only fallen? I think you can be truly repentant of a sin in your life an still be caught in temptation. Temptations are a whole other ball of wax though.

:agree:

I'm back to agreeing with AM :P

Taken from Wikipedia...I can't wait till the morning :wall: :tease: :hmm: :fan:

Woah, A2J! I was never intending to "go" anywhere with this. Just wanted to discuss differences in viewpoints of sin.

For example, the roman catholics began the doctrine of "original sin" in which all of man is born with the guilt of Adam's sin on us. That we are gultiy of sinning from the get go...Having looked into the doctrines of protestant churches, many of them originated with this same idea, but I believe they have pulled away from it as time passed..
We do not believe in original sin. We believe that we are each guilty of our own sin, and no one else's. That we are born sinless, into this fallen world and the fallen state of this world corrupts our good nature. We are all created in the image of God and God is good, therefore his cration is good. What we choose to do with that goodness is up to us. We can choose to give in to temptations and the pull of this fallen world, or we can choose to do the harder thing, obey God and cleave to the goodness that He is..

First, you have to remember that wikipedia can be edited and added to by anyone, and so their "facts" are not always fact.

We do not confess to the priest, but to God in the presence of the priest. (That does not preclude private confessions to God.) The benefit of this is that if there is a particular sin that we are and have been struggling with, he can give advice on how to change the behavior, avoid situations that may tempt us in that area, advise us on things we can do to overcome those things, etc...
Not to mention how embarrassment cn be a motivationg factor. Who wants to go to have to let their priest hear them confess oer and over and over that they masturbated to porn every day. When you know that someone else is gonna know what you've done, you might be a little more motivated to avoid the behavior..
Its not done in the little box like the RCs do. Also they confess to their priests and ask their priest for forgiveness.."Forgive me father for I have sinned..Its been X days since my last confession...."
We stand beside the priest at the front of the church before an icon of Christ. We pray and confess our sins to God, the priest advises, then prays over us asking God to forgive us and then maked the sign of the cross over us..
It is a very hard and humbling thing to do and I am always nervous about it..

But its good to be humbled now and then, isn't it?


I'll address more of this later. Kids are waking up and while it is dark we have to go look at the moon. We're doing a unit on stars, moon and sun :)

***whew!!!*** :happy:

I think this thread is a good place to both find out what we share in common, which helps calm some dissention, so I'm glad String started it. Even in areas where our differing traditions officially disagree, sometimes we realize that we may agree in those areas too, rather than agreeing with the group or church to which we belong.

Sin for us is "missing the mark." It's nothing inherited, although corruption exists in our nature that makes in impossible to not sin. We are born into a corrupted creation and we fall within it and must embrace Christ, Who made our rescue from death possible.

I don't think the Wiki article is well-articulated. I don't know that I can do better, but the point is, sin is any action of disobedience to God's perfect will. For one person it may be a sin not to give to someone in need, for another their circumstance may make giving irresponsble and against the will of God. There are circumstances where obedience to Christ means doing different things, so in that sense it can be relative to each person. Some behaviors are always sinful, so were not talking about them, at all. These include lying, cheating, pride, lust, adultery, fornication, murder, anger, selfishness, etc.

When we sin, we depart from the Giver of life, which sends us into darkness. We shatter the perfect image of God within us. A portion always remains, but it becomes clouded and in some cases almost completely black with sin. This "spark" or remaining portion of God in each of us it the part that can respond to the gospel, if it's fanned, igniting a flame and soon a burning love for God within us, which helps direct us toward obedience to His perfect will. Understanding the effect of sin on us helps us understand how we are saved from it.

Basil

All righty. Give it to me.

Trinity
Deity of Christ
Virgin Birth (Mary-perpetual virgin?)
Death, burial and resurrection
literalness of scripture
Creation
End-times (Book of Revelation)

What do you believe about these things for a start (and I don't want to hear about where the RC diverged in 1054, I get that part :cheeky: )

:popcorn:

Good ones, Amy......

:popcorn: :pepsi:

How about one discussion at a time? It will get too confused otherwise. JMO

I'll be back to say what I believe about sin later. I'm just a bit snowed under with assignments for the next 24 hrs

Yes. One God, three persons. They are one essence. God is the fountainhead from which the other two persons flow, kinda like the top of the triangle, which is why we reject the change the RC made to the Nicene statement of faith, which correctly says, "We believe in the Holy Spirit, Who proceeds from the Father, and together with the Father and Son is worshipped and glorified." The RC added "proceeds from the Father and the Son," which may sound minor, but it turns the triangle upside down and makes their view of the Trinity skewed. God is the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit were begotten of Him, still one essence with Him. Anyone else have a headache?

Yes. Remained fully God, even after the incarnation when He became fully man. Neither nature eclipsed the other. He was subject to temptation, just like GutterRat :D

Yes, Mary was a virgin at Christ's birth and we believe she remained one the rest of her life. Scripture supports this, although it's not explicitly stated, and it can be confusing since some family relationships are called brothers, when they were actually cousins and perhaps Joseph's children with his previous wife.

When Jesus was on the cross, he commissioned John to take Mary and care for her as his mother, and for Mary to rely on him as a son. If she had other kids, she wouldn't have to do this, she'd still have them to care for her. This is really about the only small reference that supports this, other than other the oral tradition confirmed in other early writings, so if you discount any historic evidence outside the books of scripture, then those references won't convince you.

Of Christ? Yes, we literally believe these things occurred. He died and descended to hell and destroyed it's power over mankind. He went as a victor, conquering death for us, so that we could be raised from the dead with Him.

Scripture contains many literal parts and some figurative parts, along with other literary devices. It's the Word of God, and the most important foundation for Christian belief. Nothing can be taught within the Church which contradicts scripture.

God has the power to achieve full creation in a literal 24/7, but most likely they days were actually "ages." I don't think there is any official position on this, it has not been clearly revealed to us. Yes, it says seven days, but it seems like I've heard the word used for days can even be translated differently. Regardless of the time frame, God created all things from nothing.

When Christ returns the Judgement will occur and He will reign for all eternity thereafter. The 1000 year reign is a figurative expression for eternity. It's like us saying that wouldn't happen in a million years, meaning that it will never happen, not literally that after a million years it will happen. Just on a common sense level, why would God defeat and bind the devil and let him loose again, as some teach? What sort of sick game would that be?

Must use discipline . . . can't go on tirade . . . <sweat dripping from brow>

I'm sure most of us agree on these things, except maybe Mary remaining a virgin and the end time thing.

Oh my achin head..... ok.. so we're nto goin to debate in this thread right? I'll start another one over two points listed here...

I don't think this was the non debate thread. This one was created to discuss these things. At least that's what I thought.

The one's not to debate in are the one's about other topics completely, that then get derailed by this stuff.

I think I've got that right. :dunno: String started the thread, maybe she can tell us what she intended.....

:dunno: This thread is here to share our different ideas on these topics, and I think it's okay to question or debate them also.