Speakin in terms of what God can do, of course it's never to little to late, because we know God can do anythin. But in terms of human relations, is there a point where to little to late actually comes into play? Is it merely jes a choice? Folks choose to love er not love, er is it even much of a choice in the end? Does it git to the point where its jes done an over wit? An is it by choice er circumstance?

Ya see, I feel it's to little to late, like the flood of threads here lately, jes like the last major blow up, all of a sudden a bunch of marriage topics an the like showed up in a journal. Now a bunch of threads I've not even bothered to click on. Why in the middle of the crap, then decide to bother lookin stuff up an the like? It is a bigger insult to me personnaly to all of a sudden start sumthin when the crap has already hit the fan.

7 emails, 4 er 5 threads, IM messages left on my bunk pc, none of which have I read, I don't care, I'll probly read all of it but it won't tell me anythin new, jes more of the same crap until "I git over it all" - as usual, then thins would jes be like always until the next time an the crap starts all over agin. I'm done wit this crap, I'm tired of the idea "Oh Louis is jes mad I'll do this er that til he gits over it". I'm sick of bein the one that has to "jes git over it" an nuthin changes, the same o'l crao, jes a different day. When is enough jes that, enough?

I cain't, I refuse, to play the silly games, I have been pushed right up to the cliff, an now it's my choice, jump off er be pushed off. I had been feelin like I'd already been pushed off, but thats not fair to the other party, I don't think anyone can actually push one off the ledge, but they can push you right to the very edge til whats the point in even tryin to hang on anymore?


It's far to little, far to late.

Luis, my brotha, this world is as close to hell as we'll (as Christians) ever get. It's not supposed to be easy. When my wife had an affair it was far from what I wanted in my life. The "easy" road would have been to leave and go find someone else but I prayed about it and feel that if I left I would only repeat the same things I did with Jennifer with the next person and possibly be in the same situation later. Staying with Jennifer, I felt, glorified God more and it also allowed us both to work through what we needed to (we're still working) and I know that ultimately God will be glorified and our relationship is already better than it ever was before. Keep the faith. Real men stay, that's it. Even if you don't have all this faith and decide to save the marriage, just decide that no matter what you aren't going anywhere. I'll be praying for you, brotha!

Oh, btw I have to say it's "tOO little, tOO late." It's the teacher in me!

I believe that a couple must first try everything--counselling, talking WITHOUT yelling, praying, and whatever other options there might be...before jumping to the last resort, ie walking out on the marriage. You haven't even tried to go these routes so I don't think you've given it a fair chance...As I said in the other thread, I thik you should take a TEMPORARY separation and both get counselling..

String... be very careful before assumin what I have an have not tried.. further... you don't git much seprate then 2000 miles away from one another.

Seige, all I can take away from your post is "Luis" I'm no mexican. I apperciate your words I'm merely kiddin, an I never got the to vs too thin, if folks would jes ask me for my input when it comes to the english lingo, thins would be far more simple I should think.

sorry Lois... heh, heh, heh, I mean Louis...Let's not start in on the mexican jokes yet...as I am half mexican.

CJ

I kno that you are physically seperate because of your job, I meant that perhaps an actual time off from each other...little to no communication for a little while so that you can get yourselves worked out individually before gradually working on coming together and working out the relationship. NO calls or email. In the mean time both should spend time praying and looking inward and seeking counselling. What I've learned is that we each bring a load of crappy baggage to our marriages and we each need to work on eliminating or resolving the crap we bring in before the relationship can effectively be saved. That crap that we deal with individually ruins our ability to live cooperatively in peace...

Yes Louis, I think you can reach of point of no return. But it's a choice. Love is a choice we make every single day.

First, what do you mean when you say no return? Do you mean divorce? Is that actually an option?

I have found, for us at least, that because divorce is not an option (unless he cheats on me then I get to beat the you-know-what out of her, take him for everything, and keep the kids) that we've always been able to work things out. And I have to say, that I have not exactly been forthcoming about all that goes on between my DH and I. And that's primarily because I feel like no one really knows what's going on in my house, except us. AND because of substance abuse issues, that I don't really know many people who can really understand our issues completely.

My point is, is that my DH and I have been pretty close to the end of the line in the last year. I have come very close to the point of no return, emotionally...specifically in the last week. But then I remember, that divorce is not an option. That this is our family. This is our life, and it doesn't matter if I do all the work or he does, but the work has to be done. And there's no sense in keeping score. And there's no sense in placing blame. But if we really believe, that this is forever, then we need to keep plugging away. And it is our personal preference to not only get by, but to thrive.

It's a choice Louis. God willing, you make the right one.

That's a big chunk of it right there.

Isn't everything a choice of how we react to a situation? I've never been afraid of tangibles (dogs, bees, etc.) until I had a reason to be - like the time I was stung 23 times by bumblebees... But I've always been terrified of relationship situations. My choice was to steer clear of them, though I knew I needed to be in them. So I put up a tough front and became a 'plastic person' - a carbon-copy of every other guy who's terrified of trusting someone who's just going to rip their hearts out and eat it in front of them.

The fear made me unable to truly get on with life and become a contributing member of society. I refused to be hurt, so I refused to live. I remember reading something once, though my search for it at this time was fruitless, about how a person made his heart unbreakable. When he had achieved this unbreakable heart, he found that he was now utterly cold - like Ebenezer Scrooge. He was unable to feel, unable to care. That is what this fear of being hurt will do.

This is directed to both Sarah and Louis - not either one in particular.

You never truly fail until you quit trying to succeed. Yeah, you're tired. Ask God to give you strength. Yeah, you're burned out. Ask God to rekindle the flame. Yeah, you're ready to move on. Ask God to give you the will to stick around.

You want to find out why you can't see God? Forgive and you will be forgiven.

Take that one step further: If you forgive those who forgive you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' forgive those who forgive them. Louis - no matter how hard it is, you need to forgive everyone who doesn't forgive you. It's so much easier when they are total strangers. But to forgive someone who is close to you is much harder.

There is a passage in Proverbs, quoted in Romans 12:25, that says "If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him drink. Doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head and the Lord will reward you." The burning coals are the confusion that abounds when an enemy treats you nicely. How can you be angry with someone who, even in the face of complete and total disrespect, loves his enemy?

Both A2J and Sarah are on the defense here. Both are fortifying their defensive positions and digging holes to protect themselves from the other's shots. Neither is gaining ground, and the relationship is the one that's losing out.

Stop shooting.

A2J, if you truly feel that there is no hope left, then by all means do what you feel is right and proper to do.

If, however, you feel that there is still hope, then act on that faint glimmer of hope and take the steps necessary to save your marriage. Whether or not you feel it's proper for you to be the one to make the first move, it's still your job. Whether or not you feel it's proper for you to keep extending the olive branch, it's still your job. Both as a husband and as a Christian.

Do you love her.... simple yes or no question.....

If the answer is yes there is no such thing as too late....

If you don't then the answer is it is too late....

Don't look at the fights and all the crap going on when you sit down to think about if you love her.

Think about her. Is their any part of her that even though it drives you up the flipping wall that makes you smile inspite of how much it pisses you off.... Then more than likely you love her....

That's the hard part in life trying to figure out if you truly love someone.... and that frustration can bleed into a relationship and poison it.

Once you realize you love her or not, then the course should be a lot easier to steer.....

I'm still praying for you two.....

In all reality, I don't think love has anythin to do wit it anymore. In honesty, I love er more then this life it's sef... though I don't give a crap bout this life, it's jes an expression, of course I love er, but at what point does the love you have for someone not out weigh the rest of the crap. They say love conquers all, but does it? It does come back to choice I spose, but even choosin to love someone doesn't mean you choose to tolerate er to continue in a damin relation does it? At what point is love jes not enough to bind thins togeather?

If we say love does conquer all then it's a no brainer, but if infact love doesn't conquer all then there's trouble. I don't think it's a secret, I love Sarah, I love er very much, I don't want to live my life witout er, but at the exact same time, I don't want to live my life wit er either anymore.

Love does conquer all.. but it's rarely a quick and painless battle it's usually an ugly nasty war.......

You've got Love... There is a reason to fight.... you might need to take a couple days and just relax away from each other - no work - just play.... then come at it again fresh.....

And if you love her and she loves you it's not a single person skirmish, it's a team effort....

It's not gonna be pretty life never is....

There are gonna be major set baccks life is full of them....

But the question "Is it Worth It?" is answered the same way as the "Do You Love Them?"

I don't have all the answers no matter how often I like to pretend I do.....

I know this... no matter how bad things get with Misty (and I know you adn sarah are not Misty and I but it's all I got to go on) How bad I want to leave because of a fight or a situation.... I love her.... I don't want to live without her, and I love my kids too, I don't wanna be without them either.... It's worth working out.... I can't imagine a "Too Late Scenario" with Misty... truthfully I don't want to either....

But wars also don't need to be fought nonstop... that just wears you down and saps your will to fight.....

This didn't start overnight... it's been building there is no way in hell it's gonna be fixed overnight either....

And In a marriage when things hit the skids it's not any one person's fault....

We as spouses should recognize what's happening with our spouse.... It's not all on her and it's not all on you.... you both have to work at it, and from the bits I see here you guys look like you bust your asses trying..... That's all you can do..... It may not seem like enough... but a penny doubled every day is over a million dollars inside a month... (if I remember correctly).... It may not look like a lot today but it's down the line that it's gonna pay off....


I'm gonna stop rambling now.....