I know that scripture is divinely inspired. As such, it is infallible. I had a long discussion with Ceres about scriptural infallibility. But, right now I'm stuck.

Paul said in Ephesians 2:8-9,

That seems pretty cut-and-dried to me. It is our faith in Christ that saves us, not works.

Now, comes James (2:20-24):

This is not the "faith without works is dead" argument.

How does one correlate the two? How can we work with two seemingly contradictory statements?

I'm open for discussion on this one, 'cuz I don't know the answer.

I'm nowhere NEAR being a scholar of the Bible and/or Scripture, but my sense on this is that yes, we need to have faith in Christ to be saved, and as for the "works" part.....I think that simply means God doesn't want us to sit back & be a couch potato in our faith. He wants us to SHOW that we have faith, to show the unbelievers and doubters about faith....

And I think both of those would go hand in hand. If you TRULY have faith in and love for Christ, then you will WANT and perhaps NEED to go out & spread His word. You wouldn't want to hide your light under a bushel....

Does any of that make sense? :unsure:

It has been the orthodox Christian belief for twenty centuries that both are important and necessary. Remember Christ said that not everyone who cries "Lord Lord!" will enter the kingdom. Relying on faith alone leaads to vanity and self righteousness. Because one could say and it has been said a milion times "As long as I believe in Christ I'm okay." If faith alone were adequate, then we could believe and do whatever the heck we want to, because if we follow this line of thinking logically to its conclusion, our actions are meaningless and it doesn't matter whether or not we "work" for God because we "believe".

Okay lets start at the beginningof that idea and take it step by step to the end.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

1. All I need to do is believe, then I will be saved.
2. I believe and will be saved, therefore I really don't have to do "works"
3. I have faith and I reeally don't have to do good works, so I really don't have to do anything to be saved. I have Faith!
4. I have Faith, and so I can do whatever I really want to and still be saved....becasue I have Faith and will be saved regardless of my actions and behaviors.
5. My actions, behaviors, and sins make no difference in my entering Heaven because I hjave faith. The Bible says that faith is all you need and so that is all GOd requires of me. I can hve faith and still live my life the way I want to.

"You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone."


They key words here are that his faith was made complete by his obedience and his works. The protestants historically attempted to remove the book of James because they were unable to reconcile these things. (Book of Hebrews too) Even today many m,any protestant churches avod the book of james or only teach from it lightly because this conflicts with their misguided interpretation of other scriptures. Just as they refused to accept the Apocrypha and removed it in the first half of the 17th century, the book of James has come under fire and criticism also.

Correction--Protestants felt they had the authority to throw out scripture and so edited the apocrypha as late as the 19th Century...I think it was around 1845 or so..

My thoughts on James "Faith without works is dead":

Before I dedicated my life to Christ on January 30, 2002, I had little love for my neighbor. I laughed at the homeless. I told them to "get a job".

After January 30, 2002, my heart was changed. Now, I help the homeless - by giving food and drink - even rides to shelters (dangerous, I know).

The point is this: I had no faith prior to January 30, 2002. Therefore, I had no desire to do works. After January 30, 2002, I had faith - and my heart was moved to do works. If I turned off this desire, what does that say about my faith? It's dead.

I can reconcile James 2:4 with Ephesians 2:8-9, but not James 2:24.

I think this ties in exactly what you were saying, Clay. I don't think it's saying that a person is justified by ONLY his works, it's just saying that a person isn't justified by ONLY his faith.

I guess I just went around in a circle, huh? I mean I think it's saying a person is justified by his faith AS WELL as his works (it should be BOTH)....it can't only be faith alone......they should naturally go hand in hand. You gave a perfect example. When a person is saved & full of faith, they should naturally want to do things to exemplify their faith, to show it to others.

This is easy.

We are saved by Grace, not by works. However, that doesn't give us license to run around doing crappy things. Our comandment from Christ was to love the Lord with all of our hearts and to love one another. In loving Christ and one another, you're just bound to do good things. And there are your works.

Remember, what we do here, how we behave here impacts our rewards in heaven. Naturally we do not act or do things to get rewarded, but it is a divinely beautiful side affect.

So, use Romans 5 & 6 to reconcile the two? That makes sense. More reading! :)