DWT

I heard a study long ago that was bout Adam an Eve, was Adam the stupidest man alive er did he have more love for his spouse then any man since? Did Adam seriously not know what the consequences of his sin would be? I agreed wit the study actually that said Adam loved Eve so much that he chose to die wit Eve. Adam had to know that God would er could have jes made em another, perhaps better, mate, but because of his love for Eve he willinly chose to be wit er.

Which brings meto the point of this thread. If you knew for a fact that your spouse wasn't saved an was destined to hell, would you choose to denounce Christ an go wit your spouse because of your love for them? Granted its a bit different now then it was wit Adam an Eve an the garden, but if you placed yoursef in thier skin for a bit an your spouse screwed up to the point that Eve had done, would you have been like Adam er would you have sat in judgement of your spouse for the thin they did?

First Corinthians 7:14 says "For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy."

I don't know if I am right about this, but it might be that your faith can provide positive eternal results for your spouse. So I definately choose Christ!

Ugh, I hate this theory. It makes Adam look like the noble and good one and Eve look like only one who was being completely stupid and bad. IMHO they were both being willful, disobedient and stupid and there is no basis to believe that Adam took his bite out of love for his wife - so she wouldn't have to be alone her damnation or whatever.

I mean, if he was so big hearted and loved her so much, why did he stand there and let her have a conversation with a talking snake and then pick and eat the fruit in the first place? Why didn't he intervene, knock the fruit out her hand, kick the snake in face? Why did he stand there like a lump and let it all happen? Or could it be he was fully complicit in the act THE WHOLE TIME?

No, I'm sorry, but I think the whole theory is really unfounded and, frankly, just at teensy bit chauvinist.

DWT

Naw your mmissin the point a bit, gotta go back in time some, before 1 Cor. was written :)

An not to debate whatchya sayin really, but I don't think it gives us an excuse to not follow Christ if there is an unbelievein spouse. I know what your sayin, but come the day we stand before God, we havta answer for oursef's an we cain't rely on our spouses faith to land us a spot in heaven, least I don't think so personnaly.

Probly shoulda worded it a bit better but I am not sleepin agin an thins are a bit foggy. Le's jes stick oursef's in Adam an Eves position an answer it from that stand point.

Adam sinned first by not leading his wife, he took a submissive role when he should have been running point.

I have to ask though, why is it chauvanist to say Eve is the one who sinned? I don't understand why women (and men) fight this fight. If Eve sinned, so what? It doesn't matter who sinned first, it's just a tragedy that anyone did. Eve was one woman, granted the first woman, but she isn't representative of all women. Even if Eve was 100% at fault for sin coming into the world how in the world are we to blame all women for all time then? Doesn't that seem a bit misplaced?

DWT

Grrrrrr... ya'll are missin the point. I'm not debatin the therory bout this er anythin else. To start wit, we jes don't know all ins an outs of it anyway. Was Adam standin beside Eve an the snake at the time? We don't know if he was present when Eve was tempted an its sad that anyone would try an turn this into a male vs female thin. Yes I agree, they both chose death an sin, but I'm talkin bout sumthin much more basic, maybe Adam was noble, an maybe Eve was fallen, to pit em aginst each other isn't what I'm talkin bout. Not to mention, if you were Eve an fell, would you want your husband to run in as a noble an go wit you er dump you?

So, le'me lay it out a bit then, to actually git answers to what I'm talkin bout.

If you were Adam er Eve

Before the rest of the bible was done er written

An by yoursef when whichever was tempted an didn't know of your spouses failin

Would you choose to go wit your spouse er git God to make you another?

I can see how the therory works, but I also see how women folk git bent at the "blame" thin. Somewhere along the lines women became the blame for some reason, when it was really jes one womans failin anyways, an not only that but Adam was responisble for Eve IMO so was already in trouble. Like the bible records, both of em tried the blame game anyways, each tryin to blame the others. I'm not askin bout riight wrong er indifferent here, jes talkin hypothetically, if you an your spouse were in perfection/the garden an one of you failed, what would you do er want your spouse to do etc.

A2J - sorry, I knew that wasn't your point, but for whatever reason, I couldn't let that one slip past this morning. Couldn't help myself - nothing against you. I'll shut up about it and let your thread go on the way it was intended after this post.

seige - Did I say anything about blaming "all women for all time?" My point was only that Adam and Eve were equally guilty of their sin. What I find irritating is not the idea that Eve sinned first (that's obvious), but the Adam sin was somehow noble because he did it for her sake. There's no reason to believe that either was more pure or noble in their motives for sinning than the other. I think it's pointless to try and read such into it.

That's all I'll say about the matter. I promised A2J that I would stop derailing his thread.

DWT

Grace you haven't gotta bow out of this any, jes answer the question hehe

Since no one has answered my question I'll answer for mysef. I flat out don't know. This hypothetical situation is part of a deeper ... issue? that I'm lookin at. Issues probly the wrong word, thin I'm thinkin bout. Anyways. I don't know what I would choose, obviously I should choose Christ, no brainer right? Now le'me put it this way.... if remarriage were sin an unrepentant sinners would not go to heaven................................ see where I'm goin wit this? Effectivly, if remarriage is sin, I have to choose between sin an Christ, between my wife an God. An months ago I thought bout this, bout the time of the last remarriage thread over yonder, an I asked mysef, could I ... dump Sarah my wife whom I love more then my life itssef? I couldn't answer that question, I still cain't. Anyways, I know the Adam an Eve thin isn't exactly the same, after all God *could* have given Adam another woman, but if remarriage is so wrong etc then it's not an option to have God give me another woman, sides, I've got more woman now then I could ever hope to have ever agin.

Ah, well, about what you said - I'm not sure that the unrepentant sinner doesn't get to heaven. I mean, you don't think there are A LOT of Christians out there who are going to meet their maker with sins they haven't repented of? I don't hold with the Catholic notion that we have to be absolved of all our sins before we have a chance at heaven (that's what Last Rites is all about.) I think you accept Christ and do your best to live according to his word. I'm sure I've commited plenty of sins that I've forgotten to ask forgiveness for.

I see where you're coming from here though. In that particular situation, I guess I would do the same. If someone said, "By staying remarried, you won't get to heaven." I think, "Thank you, but I'll take my chances" is a pretty good answer.

I'm with GraceFaith. How could we possibly be forgiven of all of our sins to enter heaven? Some days we've sinned before our feet touch the ground in the morning. I also disagree with last rites because that would be grace by works. Which the bible tells us isn't necessary. And does that mean if someone dies in a horrible car accident that they would go to hell because no one was around to give them last rites before they passed away? God doesn't give us conditions. The bible tells us there is but one way to the Father and that is through the son. It's simple.

I have a customer who was telling me about a book she's reading. I wish I could remember the title. Anyway, the book is written by a guy who allegedly died, went to hell, and came back.

He says he had an argument with his wife and she struck him. He locked himself in the bedroom while she pounded on the door, begging his forgiveness. In his anger this guy left the house, not accepting his wife's apology, got into an accident and died. Because he had sinned and not forgiven his wife, he went to hell. But God let him come back once he'd seen the error of his ways.

HUH? Somehow this auther has a lot of descent Christians running around scared they're going to die with unforgiven (hidden or forgotten) sins and go to hell.

As far as I know, this is how it REALLY goes: We sin, we ask forgiveness, we're forgiven. Even remarriage. No one sin is greater than another. Now, if we cannot forgive ourselves, then that's another issue alltogether.

Ironically, Last Rites can be administered after death. Not sure exactly how that works, but....

I'll answer A2J's question and let the rest of this go - unless someone wants to move the thread...

If I were in Adam's shoes - oops, sorry! He didn't wear shoes! If I were in his place, here is what I would know:

1. I am walking with God every day. Life is beautiful. The Garden is beautiful.
2. I am in perfect peace.

Now - to contrast, here is what I would NOT know:

1. I do not understand what death means.
2. I do not know what it means to suffer.
3. I do not know what it means to be alone.
4. I do not know that God will give me another woman - just that I'm happy with Eve.
5. I do not know what it means to be separated from God.

Without comprehending the consequences (do any of us truly understand the consequences of sin?), why not go with Eve? As the serpent said, we would be like God. Therefore, in my opinion, Adam's decision to take a bite ranks right up there with my taking a hit of pot 'cuz this lovely lady was offering it to me.

Chances are, I would have taken the bite - but not to be noble.

Adam was right there with Eve, listening to what the Devil was telling her.

The bible says she ate the fruit, TURNED to Adam, and gave it to him… Turned being a translation of turning around and here you go.. not running off to Get him.

That's a good point. And what hetero man, in his right mind, is gonna turn down anything a naked, beautiful woman offers?

OK - maybe a married man would turn it down from a stranger...

DWT

Know what? Some staffer come in here please an jes s**tcan this thread..... its such a frackin waste

LOL

Aw, come on, A2J - that's what we're all about! So, I agreed that I would likely follow what Adam did, but not out of nobility. And, I explained why I would do that.

DWT

The point is obviously missed here an hardly worth continuin, so I think it should jes be 86'd

After re-reading the entire thread... I think I understand the question...

So, would I have chosen to stick with the woman I loved, even though that meant my own death and separation from God? I think my answer above answers this question.

If Kerense and I were Adam and Eve. I'm given a choice - I can either bite the fruit she's offered me, which has been forbidden by none other than God Himself upon penalty of death, or I can walk away from her and say, "God, you gotta do better than that!"

I think I'd stick with Kerense, but not for the reasons you suggested. I would do it more out of curiosity (as when I was offered pot 20 years ago) than to stand by the woman I love.

Hey - if you still want the thread whacked, I'll do it. But I think it would be better to let it die. All other threads do. :D

:doh: What have I done! Sorry, A2J. LOL

I forgot about that. My mother had her priest do that to my dad after he passed away.

I know he was saved before that though.