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Title: Calvinism: Ppl Being Sent To Hell For God's Glory


ceres - April 18, 2006 03:11 AM (GMT)
So apparently calvinism teaches that God sends the MAJORITY of mankind to hell for his glory.... for his GLORY, yes you heard right. Someone tell me how they justify this Biblically. I just had a conversation about this. I just don't understand how someone can think that a majority of people on earth are going to hell for God's GLORY. How this glorifies God, i just can't imagine.

andiesmama - April 18, 2006 11:28 AM (GMT)
I know nothing about Calvinism, but I'd be curious to hear more....IMO, from what you wrote, sounds ridiculous to me....God doesn't want us in hell, He wants everyone to live with Him in Heaven....

"for His glory".....do they think it's because the more people in hell, the better chance of converting all the sinners there over?? :dunno: Just asking, I know it sounds stupid....

ceres - April 18, 2006 04:42 PM (GMT)
No, they would never believe that anyone in hell could ever leave hell, that wouldn't be calvinist.

Yes it does sound stupid. I'm still annoyed about how.... annoying that is :wall: .... its only people that are "in the club" that could make such a statement. You know, since she has this knowledge, and believes God, she's not going to hell.... so why care that most everyone else is?

Something is just horribly wrong here....

clayman - April 18, 2006 05:25 PM (GMT)
Calvinism - not what John Calvin had in mind 400 years ago. Like everything else people get their hands on, it's twisted and perverted until it's unrecognizable.

Let me find my information and I'll be back.

<Jeopardy theme plays>

doo doo doo doo doo doo doooo

ceres - April 18, 2006 05:33 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (clayharryman @ Apr 18 2006, 11:25 AM)
Calvinism - not what John Calvin had in mind 400 years ago. Like everything else people get their hands on, it's twisted and perverted until it's unrecognizable.

Let me find my information and I'll be back.

<Jeopardy theme plays>

doo doo doo doo doo doo doooo

Oh I would so like that. :) I don't know too much about Calvinism.... what it is today versus what it was. I only know a little bit and I am just so disturbed that someone thinks God could get glory by sending people to hell. I don't understand. :sad:

GutterRat - April 18, 2006 10:50 PM (GMT)

QUOTE

Given that its present form has multiple main tributaries, the name "Calvinism" is somewhat misleading if taken to imply that every major feature of the doctrine of the "Calvinist churches", or of all Calvinist movements, can be found in the writings of Calvin. Others are often credited with as much of a final formative influence on what is now called Calvinism as Calvin himself did – for example Calvin's successor Theodore Beza, the Dutch theologian Franciscus Gomarus, the founder of the Presbyterian church, John Knox, and any number of later figures such as the English Baptist John Bunyan, the American preacher Jonathan Edwards, and Neo-orthodox theologian Karl Barth.

Despite the various contributing streams of thought, the central issue in Calvinist theology that is often used to represent the whole is the system's particular soteriology (doctrine of salvation), which emphasizes that man is incapable of adding anything from himself to obtain salvation and that God alone is the initiator at every stage of salvation, including the formation of faith and every decision to follow Christ. This doctrine was definitively formulated and codified during the Synod of Dort (1618-1619), which rejected an alternate system known as Arminianism.

Calvinism is sometimes called "Augustinianism" because the central issues of Calvinistic soteriology were articulated by St. Augustine in his dispute with the British monk Pelagius. In contrast to the free-will position advocated by Charles Finney and other dissenters (often labeled Pelagians or Semipelagians), Calvinism places strong emphasis, not only on the abiding goodness of the original creation, but also on the total ruin of man's accomplishments and the frustration of the whole creation caused by sin, and it therefore views salvation as a new work of creation by God rather than an achievement of those who are saved from sin and death.

More broadly, "Calvinism" is virtually synonymous with "Reformed Protestantism", encompassing the whole body of doctrine taught by Reformed churches. In addition to maintaining a Calvinist soteriology, one of the more important and distinctive features of this system is the regulative principle of worship, which in principle rejects any form of worship not explicitly instituted for the church in the Bible and which sets Reformed theology apart from Lutheranism, which holds to the normative principle of worship.


and....


QUOTE
Unconditional election is a doctrine which teaches that God, in eternity, chose out of all mankind those whom He would save by means of Christ's death and the work of the Holy Spirit, for no other reason than His own wise, just, and gracious purpose. It is one of the five points of Calvinism and is properly looked upon as a particular application of the general doctrine of Predestination or Foreordination as it relates to the salvation of sinners. Unconditional Election was first codified in the Belgic Confession (1561), re-affirmed in the Canons of Dordrecht (1619) arising from the Quinquarticular Controversy, and is an historic part of the Reformed faith as found in the various Reformed Confessions.


and
QUOTE

The Calvinist doctrine of predestination, is the religious doctrine sometimes referred to as "double predestination". The term double predestination is usually used in a disparaging way to refer to the Calvinist belief that God has not only appointed the eternal destiny of some to salvation (Unconditional election), but by necessary inference, also appointed the remainder to eternal damnation (Reprobation). In other words, the doctrine of "double predestination" says that, before the foundation of the world, (1) God appointed his elect to eternal life, and (2) God condemned the rest to everlasting punishment.


Can find more here.

gracefaith - April 19, 2006 02:07 PM (GMT)
I'm recovering Calvinist. It's really not a bad doctrine at heart - it just sounds awful to everyone on the outside. I remember the first time I tried to explain it to my best friend. She was appalled, "People BELIEVE that?!!!"

Here's Calvinism in a nutshell:

Man is completely fallen and incapable of doing any good thing outside of the Will of God; this includes coming to God for salvation. For anyone to come to God and accept salvation, God must first call them to Himself. Once God has called you, you can try and resist, but eventually God wins (He's God, afterall.) Obviously, not everyone is a Christian or is saved. If no one can come to God without being called, and no one who is called can say no, the only logical conclusion is that the existence of unbelievers means that God calls some people but not everyone.

To many people, this sounds like God is 'sending people to hell.' A Calvinist would reply that God doesn't send people to Hell, sin does. Without God's intervention we'd all be going to Hell. The glory of God is not shown in the condemnation of those who are lost in their sin, but in those God chooses to save.

4jacks - April 20, 2006 04:29 PM (GMT)
blah blah blah

4jacks - April 20, 2006 04:30 PM (GMT)
I just left the Presbyterian Church,

Gracefaith summed it up pretty good.

sf49erfan - May 15, 2006 08:25 PM (GMT)
I've been a Presbyterian all my life and haven't heard of most of this stuff.

gracefaith - May 16, 2006 12:57 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (sf49erfan @ May 15 2006, 02:25 PM)
I've been a Presbyterian all my life and haven't heard of most of this stuff.

Hah hah Lemme guess, PCUSA?

sf49erfan - May 16, 2006 01:41 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (gracefaith @ May 16 2006, 06:57 AM)
QUOTE (sf49erfan @ May 15 2006, 02:25 PM)
I've been a Presbyterian all my life and haven't heard of most of this stuff.

Hah hah Lemme guess, PCUSA?

Yep.

gracefaith - May 16, 2006 02:51 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (sf49erfan @ May 16 2006, 07:41 AM)
QUOTE (gracefaith @ May 16 2006, 06:57 AM)
QUOTE (sf49erfan @ May 15 2006, 02:25 PM)
I've been a Presbyterian all my life and haven't heard of most of this stuff.

Hah hah Lemme guess, PCUSA?

Yep.

Figures. They can be sort of light on Reformed doctrine. Mostly, they're Presbyterian mostly by the way the church government is set up.




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